Scottish local government elections May 4th 2017

[danny la rouge]

So, although you wouldn't know it if you've been relying on the Tory leaflets for your information, today is local government elections.

This is the dedicated results thread, for electoral explorations and psephological shenanigans.

Count won't be until tomorrow (Fri 5th), with results becoming clear throughout the afternoon.

 

[danny la rouge]

So, I suppose two of the questions will be:

Labour is widely tipped to lose control of every council: will it? All eyes will be on Glasgow.

What will be the Tory performance?

 

[The Boy]

Was out walking the dog this morning and coming back past the polling place over the road I was eyeing up the posters. The Tory one was just "say no to a second referendum" or some such four or five times.

Then some grubby cunt hanging avout slyly gave it a "no to independence" as I walked past. Added the SNP as choice 2 because of that. Saw the busies come and have a word later on with his mate who was talking to people in the playground on the way in. Not sure if that was some sort of electoral probity issue, or because the Tories (I assume) had sent two guys who looked like paedos to hang about outside a primary school.

Anyway, me and the wee man have been looking out the window throughout the day and it's been pretty steady all day.

 

[Celyn]

...
Count won't be until tomorrow (Fri 5th), with results becoming clear throughout the afternoon.

Well, that's rotten. I was quite looking forward to results very late or in early hours of morning. Oh well.

 

[weepiper]

 

[Celyn]

Wow, weepiper!

I really like the way they have detailed what is wrong with schools, libraries, social work, transport management, cycle paths, etc. etc. under the current council administration and have explained the ways in which they hope to improve things.

Oops, looking at it again, maybe it's time I went to an optician.

 

[DexterTCN]

View attachment 105937

1 and 2? No 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8?

Amateurs.

 

[The Boy]

View attachment 105937

At least they listed the candidates. The one outside my polling place was just the banner head four times.

Then again, Leith is probably a bit different to your ends.

 

[redsquirrel]

Do you get people handing out "How to Vote" cards? Obviously they can't do it right outside the polling stations like they do here.

 

[weepiper]

At least they listed the candidates. The one outside my polling place was just the banner head four times.

Then again, Leith is probably a bit different to your ends.

What did you have? We had two Tories (who obviously I numbered 5 and 6) and one each SNP, Labour, Lib Dems and Green.

 

[The Boy]

What did you have? We had two Tories (who obviously I numbered 5 and 6) and one each SNP, Labour, Lib Dems and Green.

Can't even remember, tbh. Was only planning on giving the Green a vote until someone plonked a jobby outside the polling place who muttered at passersby about independence in the manner of a French street dealer. After that I gave the SNP my second pref just to spite him.

 

[redsquirrel]

What did you have? We had two Tories (who obviously I numbered 5 and 6) and one each SNP, Labour, Lib Dems and Green.

Do you have to number all the way down?

 

[weepiper]

Do you have to number all the way down?

No, but numbering a candidate last works against them.
Vote until you boak

 

[redsquirrel]

No, but numbering a candidate last works against them.
Vote until you boak

Well only up to a certain point. Voting Tory 5 & 6 is the same as not voting for them at all.

As long as you rank all the other candidates, you don’t actually need to rank Tory Tom, just ensure that he’s pushed to the bottom. But you do need to rank the other candidates to ensure the Tory is at the bottom of the pile.

On Australia, you used to have to mark every position (bar the very last one) for your vote to be valid (or just give it to a party to decided how the preferences were distributed).

 

[Celyn]

... Tom Harris, a minister in Tony Blair's last Labour government and one of its most stridently Unionist figures in Scotland, said the party had to ape the SNP and announce a formal policy on no coalitions with the Tories.

Labour's survival hinging on SNP council alliances, expert warns

"APE" the SNP?
"APE"?

 

[Celyn]

Can't even remember, tbh. Was only planning on giving the Green a vote until someone plonked a jobby outside the polling place who muttered at passersby about independence in the manner of a French street dealer. After that I gave the SNP my second pref just to spite him.

(Bolding mine) Leaving aside whether it was the polling place that muttered at passersby, was there really a bloke who did a shit there? In public?

 

[danny la rouge]

Labour's survival hinging on SNP council alliances, expert warns

"APE" the SNP?
"APE"?

Labour had a coalition administration with the Tories here in Stirling. If they are in a position to again this time, will they not?

 

[JTG]

Well only up to a certain point. Voting Tory 5 & 6 is the same as not voting for them at all.


On Australia, you used to have to mark every position (bar the very last one) for your vote to be valid (or just give it to a party to decided how the preferences were distributed).

*penny drops*
In the recent WA election there was huge controversy over the Liberals giving their second prefs to One Nation rather than the Nationals. I thought that was just a recommendation to voters but what you're saying is that parties end up with a block of votes to transfer as they see fit unless the individual voter has voted otherwise?

 

[Celyn]

Hmm, tricky one, that. What thinkest thou?

Labour and Tories in coalition? As if!

Oh, this is SO annoying - I want the results from Glasgow, Well from everywhere, of course, but given that I live in Glasgow....

 

[danny la rouge]

So, count underway in most places now. Glasgow result expected about 4pm.

Turn out in the Moray area is reported to be more than 45%, up from 37.7% in 2012. Is this a differential turnout for Tories or SNP? Or is it across the board? We'll have to wait to see.

 

[DexterTCN]

Glasgow result 4pm - auditors move in 4:01pm

 

[The Boy]

(Bolding mine) Leaving aside whether it was the polling place that muttered at passersby, was there really a bloke who did a shit there? In public?

Nah, the jobby was a man. I I was trying to be funny by using a mild insult.

 

[danny la rouge]

 

[redsquirrel]

*penny drops*
In the recent WA election there was huge controversy over the Liberals giving their second prefs to One Nation rather than the Nationals. I thought that was just a recommendation to voters but what you're saying is that parties end up with a block of votes to transfer as they see fit unless the individual voter has voted otherwise?

It can be both, depending on whether the election is for the upper or lower house or state or federal, there's a number of different system. There was also a change in the law for the federal upper house just before the last election.
For the House of Reps, the lower house (elected using compulsory AV) at the federal level you have to vote for candidates, you can't assign your vote to a party, so there parties just hand 'how to vote' cards. For the senate (elected using STV) you can vote both 'above the line', for a specific candidate, or 'below the line', basically giving a particular party your vote. You can also do a combination of the two, so say voting Ms Green 1, Mr Labour 2, above the line, then giving your vote to the Green Party.

Prior to 2015 the WA state system was the same as the federal system but I'm not sure if they made the same changes that were made in the federal system. Even so I'm 90% sure that the Liberals both recommended a vote for One Nation in the lower house and gave them their preferences in the upper house. DownwardDog might be able to confirm.

 

[danny la rouge]

 

[danny la rouge]

 

[DownwardDog]

Prior to 2015 the WA state system was the same as the federal system but I'm not sure if they made the same changes that were made in the federal system. Even so I'm pretty sure that the Liberals both recommended a vote for One Nation in the lower house and gave them their preferences in the upper house. DownwardDog might be able to confirm.

Yep, preference flows in the WA upper house are done by seedy deals between the parties. In the lower house the low information voters (remember everyone HAS to vote) just follow HTV cards that their preferred parties hand out so that's not quite as efficient at transferring preferences.

They abandoned that for the Senate at the Federal level after some guy called Glenn Druery (aka 'The Preference Whisperer') figured out how to game the system. He was even creating his own micro-parties just to manage preference flows.

 

[danny la rouge]

No, but numbering a candidate last works against them.
Vote until you boak

If enough people have followed this advice, another interesting effect to watch for will be if pro indy SNP voters will have given their high preference votes for the Greens (who have fielded more candidates than any other minor pro Indy party). Will Greens have more councillors as a result? And might there there be any councils where Greens hold the balance of power where the SNP don't have overall control?

 

[redsquirrel]

Yep, preference flows in the WA upper house are done by seedy deals between the parties. In the lower house the low information voters (remember everyone HAS to vote) just follow HTV cards that their preferred parties hand out so that's not quite as efficient at transferring preferences.

Cheers

 

[danny la rouge]

Explainer: The four major battles in Scotland's council elections

"An understated feature of the 2016 Scottish Election was the divergence in voting patterns between the central belt (where SNP support increased) and north of the central belt (where SNP support decreased, and the Tory vote went up)."