Save Lambeth Libraries and the Carnegie Library occupation

[Orang Utan]

I have to say, the very overwhelming majority of the public audience at the committee last night appeared to be white MC. It was rather noticeable.

they tend to have the resources and the leisure to get involved with these things - you are less likely to get a single mother on the breadline coming along to an evening meeting

 

[Plumdaff]

As much as I love the idea of a library I can't honestly see much future for them in their current guise. Kids simply don't need them anymore. It's a worthy fight but I don't see how they can survive the digital 'revolution'. I grew up a geeky kid who couldn't wait my for my weekly visit to the library but the average kid these days probably doesn't go anywhere a book. It's all there online. No need to leave the house.

Every time I go to my local library it's full of young people. Not everyone has the internet or a quiet warm place to study at home.

 

[quimcunx]

I have the internet and a quiet warm place to study at home but I still often used the Tate library for study. Far fewer distractions there. It was always busy with people of all ages studying or researching and using the computers. White middle class people were definitely not in the majority, especially amongst teens and young adults.

 

[Gramsci]

However the committee were also fairly hopeless in their questioning. There were various legitimate issues raised in the various objectors statements but they failed to properly address several of these. Again this seems to be a common scenario. They spent ages discussing whether there should be a condition relating to baby changing facilities but just didn't go into depth of any of the more substantial issues raised which potentially could have given them grounds to refuse. The questions they did raise, were actually all fairly well answered by the planners and supporters. They just didn't ask the right questions which was very frustrating.

In my opinion, having listened to planners' responses there didn't seem to be overwhelming reasons to refuse this application. But I certainly felt that there were reasons which coudl have been, but just weren't examined enough1.

My experience of planning committee meetings was that it was the LD members like ex Cllr Palmer who would ask the probing questions.

Whilst Planning Committee is not supposed to be under the Labour Whip it would be a brave Labour Cllr to do the same of what is a Labour party project.

 

[Gramsci]

The Tate Library is heavily used by young people doing homework. A lot of young people need it.

 

[Gramsci]

As much as I love the idea of a library I can't honestly see much future for them in their current guise. Kids simply don't need them anymore. It's a worthy fight but I don't see how they can survive the digital 'revolution'. I grew up a geeky kid who couldn't wait my for my weekly visit to the library but the average kid these days probably doesn't go anywhere a book. It's all there online. No need to leave the house.

I think you have a point. The problem is there is still a digital divide.

Gordon Brown started a scheme to give laptops to less well off kids. Not sure what happened to that.
BBC News - Poorer pupils to be given free laptops

It's also technically feasible to give whole areas free WiFi. Such as housing estate.

The BBC article (quite old) also points out that IT services had been cut in schools. I doubt it's improved.

 

[teuchter]

My experience of planning committee meetings was that it was the LD members like ex Cllr Palmer who would ask the probing questions.

Whilst Planning Committee is not supposed to be under the Labour Whip it would be a brave Labour Cllr to do the same of what is a Labour party project.

It was a tory cllr (Bernard Gentry) who voted not to approve, although his reasons were a bit rambling and failed to get to the significant points.

He also kept interrupting Jim Dickson while he was try to give his two-minute speech in support. Dickson saying that the council was facing massive cuts from central govt, Gentry saying that he shouldn't be making "political" points in his 2-minute slot. The chair was telling Gentry to shut up and that Dickson could say what he liked. They had to adjourn the meeting to sort it out.

Jim Dickson was not a popular man in the room; I did feel a bit sorry for him though. I can see that from his point of view they are trying to sort something out that can ensure the future of the library in the face of the very real funding cuts. People can disagree whether it's a good way to go about it, was a bit off for people in the audience to be harassing him personally and implying he had some kind of sinister agenda though.

 

[Tropi]

Libraries are PUBLIC SPACES, which is something that politicians and their pals seem to hate these days. How long until they change the public parks into something more profitable too (for someone, not for the public)?

 

[CH1]

Libraries are PUBLIC SPACES, which is something that politicians and their pals seem to hate these days. How long until they change the public parks into something more profitable too (for someone, not for the public)?

Surely that is what the issue is. Carnegie Library → Brockwell Lido
There will be a self-service collection of books allegedly "paid for" by the nubile nymphets and their fit banker friends who pay to use the gym facilities.

Or have I misunderstood?

 

[Gramsci]

Libraries are PUBLIC SPACES, which is something that politicians and their pals seem to hate these days. How long until they change the public parks into something more profitable too (for someone, not for the public)?

It's happened in a small way in the Brixton Rec. The conference/meeting room in the Rec has been handed over to GLL to use as a base for there regional office rent free by the Council. With no consultation with users of the Rec. So not only is it not for public use it is not even profitable now. GLL were stuck for a space for there regional office in London so asked the Council to help them out.

It's a constant battle at the Rec to argue for at least some of it to be kept as affordable public space.

GLL / Better believe they have to compete with there competitors such as Virgin. Keep up with the latest branding and trends in fitness/gyms. It's a potentially profitable sector.

So as CH1 says the library/ gyms will be set up to appeal to the well off.

 

[SpamMisery]

Would you rather Better or Virgin? Personally I think Better do a good job.

 

[CH1]

Would you rather Better or Virgin? Personally I think Better do a good job.

Personally I'd rather have negotiated with Friends of Carnegie to run the library with the council retaining the freehold.

The Friends group had a vibrant programme of musical and literary events in previous years - before their attention was distracted by the effort to keep the library going at all.

I would say that supporting either Virgin or Better was a proposition to turn your back on local talent and expertise (in running a library that is).

 

[SpamMisery]

Personally I'd rather have negotiated with Friends of Carnegie to run the library with the council retaining the freehold.

The Friends group had a vibrant programme of musical and literary events in previous years - before their attention was distracted by the effort to keep the library going at all.

I would say that supporting either Virgin or Better was a proposition to turn your back on local talent and expertise (in running a library that is).

I agree Carnegie et al should remain as open libraries, but Gramsci was talking about Brixton Rec.

 

[Tropi]

Not Carnegie Library related but I have to say that I have a certain deep dislike for Brat Branson and his 'I'm such a cool entrepreneur, come and check my Virgin Care private help to the local authorities' marketing strategy.

 

[CH1]

Here is a flavour of the meeting on planning meeting Tuesday:

CLICK TO GET THE REACTIONS OF LABOUR COUNCILLORS
"We need 3 van loads of Police for Health and Safety.
Staff woz attacked at the Karibu Arches meeting etc etc

 

[Rushy]

Well I can see at let one extremely dodgy character in that line up.

 

[Tropi]

Go people!

 

[Gramsci]

Would you rather Better or Virgin? Personally I think Better do a good job.

What's this got to do with my post? What are you trying to say?

 

[Tropi]

Can anything still be done for Carnegie and Libraries? Can the councilors be taken to Court?

 

[teuchter]

Can anything still be done for Carnegie and Libraries? Can the councilors be taken to Court?

Taken to court for what?

There is still the process of actually signing the lease over to the new trust or whatever. You need to find out how that works and work out how to make your objections. I assume somewhere there is a committee that decides this but it's not something I know much about.

It's at that point that the gym thing can or can't go ahead, as far as I understand.

 

[Gramsci]

BRUG (Brixton Rec Users Group) raised the issue of how this is to be funded. It looks like some of the surplus that the Recreation Centres make will be diverted into the gym/library scheme.

Surplus is the money left from all the income made from Recs after Better and Council have kept the bit needed to keep the centre's running. Money that should IMO be used to improve existing centre's and keep down prices in them. Not to kick-start gym libraries.

 

[Gramsci]

The only Rec not making a profit/ surplus (the Councils preferred term) is Ferndale.

 

[Tropi]

Taken to court for what?

For being completely useless?
Have you seen this on the News from Crystal Palace website?
LAMBETH COUNCIL’S UTTERLY BONKERS REASON FOR NOT ANSWERING A FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST……

Some time ago the Sulina and Morrish Road residents association made a request about a failed CPZ consultation where Lambeth spent many many bucks for nothing and they received the same pack of bull 'the officer responsible has left the building...'

Why this doesn't goes on national news and they can get away with it is beyond me. No wonder Labour is so screwed up. With this bunch and zombie Blair, who needs Cons or Ukips?

 

[teuchter]

For being completely useless?
Have you seen this on the News from Crystal Palace website?
LAMBETH COUNCIL’S UTTERLY BONKERS REASON FOR NOT ANSWERING A FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST……

Some time ago the Sulina and Morrish Road residents association made a request about a failed CPZ consultation where Lambeth spent many many bucks for nothing and they received the same pack of bull 'the officer responsible has left the building...'

Why this doesn't goes on national news and they can get away with it is beyond me. No wonder Labour is so screwed up. With this bunch and zombie Blair, who needs Cons or Ukips?

Have you found out anything about what the next stage in the process for Carnegie is?

 

[teuchter]

A load of furniture and stuff being cleared out when i went past this afternoon.

I bet loads of it is still usable but going to the tip anyway.

 

[brixtonscot]

More dodgy dealings involving GLL..
"How can GLL take on the running of Dudley libraries, including TUPEing staff over, and yet the Council still claim that a staff-led working arrangement has been created ?......Where, when, how and whom made the decision to appoint GLL? "
Dodgy Dudley?

 

[Gramsci]

More dodgy dealings involving GLL..
"How can GLL take on the running of Dudley libraries, including TUPEing staff over, and yet the Council still claim that a staff-led working arrangement has been created ?......Where, when, how and whom made the decision to appoint GLL? "
Dodgy Dudley?

That's an interesting read.

The parallel with Lambeth is the sudden change of plan and suddenly GLL are going to run it.( The Lambeth consultations on the future of parks, libraries and the Recs did not give the option of gym/ libraries.)

GLL appear to be actively going to Local Authorities. This is top down. They aren't asking local communities.

 

[CH1]

I noticed that last weeks (10th March) SLP has a Carnegie-related opinion piece by Councillor Dickson.
He talks of the "upgrade" being Heritage Lottery funded, which is a bit of a travesty since the alterations will serve to undermine the integrity of the building.

Apparently the new "library" will be good for another 100 years - and cap a run of similar successful projects such as 198 Gallery, Ruskin Park Paddling Pool, Brockwell Lido and the Herne Hill market plaza.

You pays you money and takes your choice - and of course get a vote about it in 2018 after the damage has been done.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I noticed that last weeks (10th March) SLP has a Carnegie-related opinion piece by Councillor Dickson.
He talks of the "upgrade" being Heritage Lottery funded, which is a bit of a travesty since the alterations will serve to undermine the integrity of the building.

Apparently the new "library" will be good for another 100 years - and cap a run of similar successful projects such as 198 Gallery, Ruskin Park Paddling Pool, Brockwell Lido and the Herne Hill market plaza.

You pays you money and takes your choice - and of course get a vote about it in 2018 after the damage has been done.
View attachment 102467

What a load of steaming dogshit the man talks.

 

[CH1]

What a load of steaming dogshit the man talks.

I thought what he was actually doing was playing "gramophone record" as it is called in assertiveness training.

Just keep repeating what you think and what you want. Eventually it is accepted by your interlocutors - you hope.
(sort of like Trump lite you might almost say)