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Roald Dahl's Books Being Altered

Changing the work of authors from the past

  • It's right to change *most/all* potentially non-inclusive/offensive literature from the past.

    Votes: 1 2.7%
  • It's right to change potentially non-inclusive/offensive *child* literature from the past.

    Votes: 6 16.2%
  • Edits are ok for current literature but great past authors' work is sacred/should remain untouched

    Votes: 30 81.1%

  • Total voters
    37
I was a big fan of Kipling's "Just So Stories" when I was in primary school. So I bought them to read to my son when he was little. I was shocked by the occasional use of racist language an racist concepts. I self censored those bits when I read them out.
When I was little those words and concepts meant nothing to me. At that age I had never met any black people, nor encountered deliberate racism that I was aware of.
Books aimed primarily at children should not contain language which readers should find offensive. But the difficulty here, as ever, is to determine who is to perform any censorship. Fascists and Nazis get offended by different things to Communists and Socialists. Ditto atheists and Christians and Muslims. Etc. Etc.

This is the problem isn’t it , with Kipling and Twain as examples . Their language is incredibly racist by todays standards, but they were both pushing hard against the racist paradigms of their time. Read the poem East is East for an example.
 
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were they both not published in Playboy hardly kids stories

They are adult stories. Many of his adult works are brilliant. Some are sexual and brilliant. But the Great Switcharoo is about rape, and condones it. (Rape by impersonation to be precise, to save anyone having to read it if they haven’t).
 
Dahl’s section in his autobiography of how his fighter squadron got wiped out is one of the most profound pieces of writing about the horror of war I have read.
 
I was just using them as examples.
It's about self-censorship by copyright holders for commercial reasons, though. So I would say the idea that there's a slippery slope towards a future where anyone will have the power to censor anything according to their personal political views. The number of Nazis who can censor a children's book is a factor of how many Nazis control the publishing of children's books
 
LOL 😂

I was out and about when I was creating it.

Just out of interest, how do you believe the poll should have gone? I want to know what wasn't represented properly.

Personally, I wanted to distinguish adult lit. from child lit. and I also wanted to only focus on past authors, particularly the greats.

I find people's replies/votes interesting as right-leaning people/press seem to want to pin this on the overcontrolling 'loony left'.

I would call this site predominantly left-leaning and there's a sizable amount of people here who basically voice the same concerns - meaning, on a fundamental level it's wrong to mess with past authors' work. Warnings may be fair play, but generally the past should be seen in the context of the past.

I'm not saying that's everyone's view but seems significantly represented here.
sorry not got time to post a clever alternative but basically i see it as a case by case basis whereas the poll forces quite absolute positions ("most/all") - its not that bad a poll tbh ;)
 
It's about self-censorship by copyright holders for commercial reasons, though. So I would say the idea that there's a slippery slope towards a future where anyone will have the power to censor anything according to their personal political views. The number of Nazis who can censor a children's book is a factor of how many Nazis control the publishing of children's books
I said that Nazis were an example. I should have said a bad example.
 
Dahl’s section in his autobiography of how his fighter squadron got wiped out is one of the most profound pieces of writing about the horror of war I have read.
My daughter, 8, wanted the whole RD collection, so she ended up with that too. Not sure if it's for her. Is it a good read for adults? Is it one for adults to read to their kids?
 
My daughter, 8, wanted the whole RD collection, so she ended up with that too. Not sure if it's for her. Is it a good read for adults? Is it one for adults to read to their kids?

It’s quite adult in terms of death. Depends on her I guess.
 
I don't recognise the world anymore.
Why do people feel the need to force censorship down everyone's throat. They are kids books for fucks sake, written at a different time from a different point of view. If you don't agree with them don't read them or buy them for your kids. Don't wipe them from existence. Learn how society has progressed from choice not force.
Kids books today christ knows what tomorrow 😵‍💫

When are the bonfires taking place - i'll bring the potatoes and marshmallows
 
Think point here is it's the publishers doing this as they're worried this is the course of action people will take otherwise and they want their intellectual property to keep earning.
But is this kind of censorship generally what people want from either side of the political spectrum? Clearly it's the kind of thing conservatives hate and, going by this thread, such action is not that popular all round, tbh.

So given the above, why is it happening? They think they're securing earnings by doing something that is significantly disliked?
 
But is this kind of censorship generally what people want from either side of the political spectrum? Clearly it's the kind of thing conservatives hate and, going by this thread, such action is not that popular all round, tbh.

So given the above, why is it happening? They think they're securing earnings by doing something that is significantly disliked?
That's my guess, presume the demographic buying kid's lit is not the same as the one wringing its hands about wokeness gone mad.
 
I mean, as I've mentioned I'm not particularly convinced that these changes are necessary, I'm not hugely celebrating them or anything, but I think the exercise of state power and a commercial decision by a publisher are two different things and it's a bit of a category error to mix them up?

Hmm...I don't think this is a difficult argument to understand - there is an increasing trend towards censorious behaviour in many places at the same time across the Anglo world

It was driven initially by the censorious left and now it has attracted a counter-reaction from the right, which may in some places be worse than the behaviour that it is responding to. De Santis is a reactionary - he is reacting to perceived censorship from the left.

People seem to have a real hunger for the authoritarian reform of information these days. I wonder if it has something to do with the super-abundance of it re: the internet? Were there similar battles over censorship following the introduction of the printing press (probably most relevant historical example)? It seems so...


I often wonder these days whether we're due a period of wars (especially civil wars) as a result of, essentially, the massive increase of information provided by the internet. The printing press seemed to stimulate widespread conflict until people learnt to tolerate differences of opinion.
 
But is this kind of censorship generally what people want from either side of the political spectrum? Clearly it's the kind of thing conservatives hate and, going by this thread, such action is not that popular all round, tbh.

So given the above, why is it happening? They think they're securing earnings by doing something that is significantly disliked?
its because a kids publisher would ask words like Fat to be changed now, and they're applying current children's editorial standards to books they still sell shit tonnes of.

If RD had written the book now Puffin wouldve changed the language behind the scenes at the editorial stage and we'd be none the wiser
 
its because a kids publisher would ask words like Fat to be changed now, and they're applying current children's editorial standards to books they still sell shit tonnes of.

If RD had written the book now Puffin wouldve changed the language behind the scenes at the editorial stage and we'd be none the wiser
Sure, I understand. But I think at least many people feel differently when the author is aware of the confines due to the context they find themselves in and negotiate them as they write or at edit level.

There's always a context even for Roald Dahl. Perhaps it was less favourable for him to dump on the Queen, religion, patriotism or whatever.

The problem I think for many is some nobody in a completely different time and context is going back and doing what would have been done by the author, ie negotiate the political mood.

And ultimately, these are thought of as great masters and many just want what they themselves wrote.
 
But is this kind of censorship generally what people want from either side of the political spectrum? Clearly it's the kind of thing conservatives hate and, going by this thread, such action is not that popular all round, tbh.

So given the above, why is it happening? They think they're securing earnings by doing something that is significantly disliked?
Sorry, what's the kind of thing conservatives hate? Censorship? As said above, conservatives historically have been the censors.

But this isn't censorship. It's an estate and publisher deciding to change books in order to sell them in today's market. I think we need to be clear about the distinction here. Censorship is something that used to happen extensively in this country up to fairly recently - and it was censorship from a conservative viewpoint. For example, all plays were censored up to 1968. And they were censored - loads of stuff got banned/changed.
 
You’re the sort who’d be pushing that Shakespeare and Bible filth onto children given half a chance.

I didn't do either. My daughter's exposure to religion was the usual RE classes at school. He could now be described as believing in God, but is not an adherent of any Church. (I'm a non-attender at the CofS). She likes Macbeth and a particular bit of Richard II. (I like the same bit.).

Shakespeare wobbles between magnificent and awful. :)
 
Sorry, what's the kind of thing conservatives hate? Censorship? As said above, conservatives historically have been the censors.

But this isn't censorship. It's an estate and publisher deciding to change books in order to sell them in today's market. I think we need to be clear about the distinction here. Censorship is something that used to happen extensively in this country up to fairly recently - and it was censorship from a conservative viewpoint. For example, all plays were censored up to 1968. And they were censored - loads of stuff got banned/changed.
Those of us of a certain age remember the public ridicule concerning Mervyn Griffiths-Jones utterance is this "a book that you would even wish your wife or your servants to read?”. I couldn't wait to get my mitts on it, when I did it was the biggest disappointment ever. The prosecution was right, it was no work of wonderful literature, simply a poorly written vehicle for smut.
 
But is this kind of censorship generally what people want from either side of the political spectrum? Clearly it's the kind of thing conservatives hate and, going by this thread, such action is not that popular all round, tbh.

So given the above, why is it happening? They think they're securing earnings by doing something that is significantly disliked?
They're not doing it to be popular. They're replacing words that have become old-fashioned because of changing standards or because they have fallen out of use over the decades, so that parents don't think "This is a bit off-colour and l'd rather not buy another Roald Dahl book in future" and kids don't think "What the hell does calling the operator with my last shilling mean, I'm all confused and I don't like this author."
 
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Sorry, what's the kind of thing conservatives hate? Censorship? As said above, conservatives historically have been the censors.

But this isn't censorship. It's an estate and publisher deciding to change books in order to sell them in today's market. I think we need to be clear about the distinction here. Censorship is something that used to happen extensively in this country up to fairly recently - and it was censorship from a conservative viewpoint. For example, all plays were censored up to 1968. And they were censored - loads of stuff got banned/changed.
I meant conservatives hate this current tinkering with RD's work and their cherished classics. Wasn't trying to make any wider claims about conservatives and censorship.

And you might have a point about the word 'censorship'. I noticed people keep using it in their comments and I got sloppy in repeating it. My point is not focused around whether that's the right word on not and therefore I should avoid using it.
 
They're not doing it to be popular. They're replacing words that have become old-fashioned because of changing standards or because they have fallen out of use over the decades, so that parents don't think "This is a bit off-colour and l'd rather not buy another Roald Dahl book in future" and kids don't think "What the hell does calling the operator with my last shilling mean, I'm all confused and I don't like this author."
lol re. shilling

Such words like 'shilling to call an operator' I would have thought are useful in an educational sense and important for setting.

Regardless though, not sure that's what all the controversy is about. Maybe moreso changing the sex of characters, etc.
 
lol re. shilling

Such words like 'shilling to call an operator' I would have thought are useful in an educational sense and important for setting.

Regardless though, not sure that's what all the controversy is about. Maybe moreso changing the sex of characters, etc.
I think the controversy is about very little, tbh, as controversies often are.
 
Editing the books to make George explicitly trans or non binary would be fun

Not the NHS could take the strain of all those popped blood vessels though.

Could also edit Timothy the dog to be a furry in a gimp mask if you really want to go for it.
 
Just catching up with this thread, am I to gather that I need to be buying the Great Switcheroo for my non-existent kids in order to own the libs?
Dahl’s section in his autobiography of how his fighter squadron got wiped out is one of the most profound pieces of writing about the horror of war I have read.
If you're interested in that side of Dahl, I'd recommend the LRB article that Diamond helpfully posted upthread, it's pretty interesting on how the darkness of Dahl's work was a reflection of his own experiences of grief and loss: Colin Burrow · The Comeuppance Button: Dreadful Mr Dahl · LRB 15 December 2022
Hmm...I don't think this is a difficult argument to understand - there is an increasing trend towards censorious behaviour in many places at the same time across the Anglo world

It was driven initially by the censorious left and now it has attracted a counter-reaction from the right, which may in some places be worse than the behaviour that it is responding to. De Santis is a reactionary - he is reacting to perceived censorship from the left.
I mean, I've got a bit more sympathy for this line of argument than I might have had a few years ago, but I think you still need to fill your point out a bit. (Also, "reactionary" is not the same as "reactive", there's more to being a reactionary than just someone who has a reaction to something.)
Where's the agency here? If we're talking about, say, the controversy over the new Harold Potter game, then yeah, I think it's fair to say that there's an organised boycott campaign aimed at getting people to make a decision not to buy it. There's a thing there, we might think that thing has features in common with De Santis or we might not but there's something to discuss. When it comes to this story, I'm not sure there's any "there" there, we're just talking about a publisher and an author's estate making a decision to try and appeal to what they see as changing consumer tastes. Why we're talking about it at all is a trickier question, my guess would be some combination of a) Puffin Books deciding that all publicity is good publicity and b) Sunak being keen on getting people to talk about something other than how fucked everything is.
 
They regularly issue updated bibles so I don't think it so odd that "they" might want to update RD'd output from time to time.

Original fetishists can still probably get older versions.
 
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