Roald Dahl's Books Being Altered

[Magnus McGinty]

Scrubbing the text?

A new edition of Huckleberry Finn is planned that will rewrite the words Mark Twain wrote. Specifically, two racial epitats are being traded for less offensive words. Is this move good for education or bad for society?

www.sheknows.com

Cheers, will check that out.

 

[Knotted]

Say I’m a successful author (not happening, have neither the talent or stamina) with fiction containing leftist ideas. I’d be horrified that at a later date fascists edited out the bits they found problematic. But this is what you’re essentially in favour of.

Are you talking about a fascist government? In which case they'll presumably destroy the originals. Which I'm not in favour of. If it's just some independent fascist publishing company, I think I would just laugh at them.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Are you talking about a fascist government? In which case they'll presumably destroy the originals. Which I'm not in favour of. If it's just some independent fascist publishing company, I think I would just laugh at them.

It’s a position you’re supporting by supporting the opposite.
The Wind in the Willows is a dreadful book. Basically a narrative for the boss class against the poor which became a popular children’s story. I wouldn’t want it edited as I want to point out to my son what it’s trying to do.

 

[Sue]

We have a site full of posters who have had their own way for over two decades on this issue.

What way?

According to the ACLU, attempts at censorship, amendment, book-banning etc. by the right wing are now at about 40% of the total (of what is visible to them, obv), so I think things may be changing a little in the next decade or so.

Not sure whether that counts as a good sign or not, seeing how the left has pissed all moral authority up against the wall on this.

What do you mean? What moral authority and how has it been pissed up against a wall? Genuinely not sure what your point is here.

 

[Knotted]

It’s a position you’re supporting by supporting the opposite.
The Wind in the Willows is a dreadful book. Basically a narrative for the boss class against the poor which became a popular children’s story. I wouldn’t want it edited as I want to point out to my son what it’s trying to do.

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is nearly as bad with Willy Wonker as the wonderful free, unregulated enterprising inventor explicitly and sometimes horrifically exploiting his workers (the worst stuff is in The Great Glass Elevator iirc). But as I see it the edits aren't taking that away from it. I think it's too integral to do anything about.

 

[Wolveryeti]

Shit poll - where is the option for 'leave stories as the author intended'? All this sensitivity reader bullshit can get in the bin, thanks.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is nearly as bad with Willy Wonker as the wonderful free, unregulated enterprising inventor explicitly and sometimes horrifically exploiting his workers (the worst stuff is in The Great Glass Elevator iirc). But as I see it the edits aren't taking that away from it. I think it's too integral to do anything about.

It’s true that Willy Wonka would be exploiting the Umpa Lumpurs through our understanding of class relations. But the story isn’t about class relations where as The Wind in the Willows is.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

We have a site full of posters who have had their own way for over two decades on this issue.

According to the ACLU, attempts at censorship, amendment, book-banning etc. by the right wing are now at about 40% of the total (of what is visible to them, obv), so I think things may be changing a little in the next decade or so.

Not sure whether that counts as a good sign or not, seeing how the left has pissed all moral authority up against the wall on this.

You're lumping a few different things together here, though. The Dahl changes are being done by a publisher and estate for commercial reasons. Whatever you think of the changes, they're not a censorship issue. And tbh once a book is out of copyright, like Mark Twain's books for example, anybody is free to do what they like to it.

 

[Knotted]

It’s true that Willy Wonka would be exploiting the Umpa Lumpurs through our understanding of class relations. But the story isn’t about class relations where as The Wind in the Willows is.

In one of the books (I think it's the Great Glass Elevator) he's actually carrying out deadly experiments on them with a time travel/aging machine. I'm not seeing anybody suggest this is edited, just the mean spirited/bigoted language. If you really need that stuff for historical context I'm sure you can still find it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It’s true that Willy Wonka would be exploiting the Umpa Lumpurs through our understanding of class relations. But the story isn’t about class relations where as The Wind in the Willows is.

It is. When I read it as a kid, though, all that stuff went right over my head, alongside all the Christian shit in CS Lewis.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

In one of the books (I think it's the Great Glass Elevator) he's actually carrying out deadly experiments on them with a time travel/aging machine. I'm not seeing anybody suggest this is edited, just the mean spirited/bigoted language. If you really need that stuff for historical context I'm sure you can still find it.

Have you read The Wind in the Willows? I suggest you do so you can see the difference.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It is. When I read it as a kid, though, all that stuff went right over my head, alongside all the Christian shit in CS Lewis.

The ‘baddies’ are the poor who are squatters and not land owners. It’s pretty risible.

 

[Knotted]

Have you read The Wind in the Willows? I suggest you do so you can see the difference.

Not since I was a kid. But I'm also not suggesting it gets completely rewritten. Nobody is afaik.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The ‘baddies’ are the poor who are squatters and not land owners. It’s pretty risible.

Yeah, I totally agree. I just didn't notice when I read it as a kid. I was too busy laughing at Toad dressed as a washerwoman.

Kids like stories. And let's face it, kids often like it best when characters are being nasty to each other. I remember not caring much for Badger, for instance. Boring. I remember thinking I'd rather be one of the weasels. Whatever an author's intention, it can always backfire!

 

[8ball]

You're lumping a few different things together here, though. The Dahl changes are being done by a publisher and estate for commercial reasons. Whatever you think of the changes, they're not a censorship issue. And tbh once a book is out of copyright, like Mark Twain's books for example, anybody is free to do what they like to it.

The Dahl thing is a massively trivial side issue, but you’re wrong in thinking that it is unrelated because this is a commercial company doing things for commercial reasons.
Pleas to and attacks on advertisers and publishers are a big part of how this works
when those who want to silence someone don’t get their way immediately.

You may note how Twitter being a private company that could do what they want meant there was nothing to discuss as various people were banned over several years, but suddenly became awfully relevant once Musk bought the thing.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The Dahl thing is a massively trivial side issue, but you’re wrong in thinking that it is unrelated because this is a commercial company doing things for commercial reasons.
Pleas to and attacks on advertisers and publishers are a big part of how this works
when those who want to silence someone don’t get their way immediately.

You may note how Twitter being a private company that could do what they want meant there was nothing to discuss as various people were banned over several years, but suddenly became awfully relevant once Musk bought the thing.

This is my reason for saying leave alone. Else you have no moral argument against the far right doing similar.

 

[8ball]

This is my reason for saying leave alone. Else you have no moral argument against the far right doing similar.

I agree in principle, I just think that ship has long since sailed.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I agree in principle, I just think that ship has long since sailed.

Well I can only state my irrelevance on a niche forum that got forgotten about after the 90s. The world will do what it likes.

 

[8ball]

Well I can only state my irrelevance on a niche forum that got forgotten about after the 90s. The world will do what it likes.

Yeah.

Tbh for kids’ stuff - well, it has always been the responsibility of adults to monitor what kids are consuming in light of the culture of the time.

I’d be happy enough for edited versions to be decently labelled.

And I don’t really think we are going to be protected by the benevolent principles of the far right when adult materials get memory-holed. It’s nice to have some cultural protections and a fighting chance is all.

Edit: and yeah, fair to say I conflated a few things at the start there. My bad. Bit groggy.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yeah.

Tbh for kids’ stuff - well, it has always been the responsibility of adults to monitor what kids are consuming in light of the culture of the time.

I’d be happy enough for edited versions to be decently labelled.

And I don’t really think we are going to be protected by the benevolent principles of the far right when adult materials get memory-holed. It’s nice to have some cultural protections and a fighting chance is all.

If only my nine year old wanted to read books. As it is he watches YouTube about his favourite games but it’s only a short step from being actually brainwashed by nutters.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The Dahl thing is a massively trivial side issue, but you’re wrong in thinking that it is unrelated because this is a commercial company doing things for commercial reasons.
Pleas to and attacks on advertisers and publishers are a big part of how this works
when those who want to silence someone don’t get their way immediately.

Yes, that is a fair point.

 

[8ball]

If only my nine year old wanted to read books. As it is he watches YouTube about his favourite games but it’s only a short step from being actually brainwashed by nutters.

This Prime drink nonsense has been especially depressing. Not something much discussed on here but the hold some arsehole “influencers” have over kids is worrying.
Afaik every tech billionaire who has been asked the question doesn’t allow their kid a smartphone til at least their teens.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

This Prime drink nonsense has been especially depressing. Not something much discussed on here but the hold some arsehole “influencers” have over kids is worrying.
Afaik every tech billionaire who has been asked the question doesn’t allow their kid a smartphone til at least their teens.

I’m fortunate that my kid actually listens to me, for now. If I say something is dog shit he agrees. But let’s see what happens when he enters his teens.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Are you on drugs?

On the spectrum I think.

 

[8ball]

Shit poll - where is the option for 'leave stories as the author intended'? All this sensitivity reader bullshit can get in the bin, thanks.

The sensitivity reader stuff is more of an issue for new stuff being written, isn’t it?

For the old stuff, at least we have the original texts, for better or worse.

I’d say there’s a place for having those readers in cases where the author is trying to be flowery and drops a clanger they don’t intend. Another part of the editing process.

 

[8ball]

On the spectrum I think.

And on drugs tbf (thanks Santino for your concern).

They’re gradually wearing off, fortunately.

So, yeah, some of what I’ve said it a bit wandering and scruffily-phrased, I’m sure. I think some posters get the gist of it. Can’t blame anyone who doesn’t.

 

[weltweit]

It seems to have been a very clever ploy, if that is what it was.

RD is now being talked about all over the place.

The new edited books will be widely available and well publicised.

AND the originals will also be available and no doubt will sell well also.

 

[8ball]

What way?

What do you mean? What moral authority and how has it been pissed up against a wall? Genuinely not sure what your point is here.

This deserves a fuller and more coherent answer than I can really manage right now.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

We’ll wait until 08:00 in the morning at the latest.

 

[A380]

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is nearly as bad with Willy Wonker as the wonderful free, unregulated enterprising inventor explicitly and sometimes horrifically exploiting his workers (the worst stuff is in The Great Glass Elevator iirc). But as I see it the edits aren't taking that away from it. I think it's too integral to do anything about.

In the edited version he is deposed, flees to Mexico but is later assassinated with a frozen Curly Wurly to the back of the head. Womka's leadership is replaced by a Soviet of Ompa Lumpas. Grandpa Joe acts as their enforcer and Charlie is sent to a reeducation camp. Instead of chocolate geegaws the factory become a beet processing part turning out in excess of 25 metric tonnes of beet products every day. In the sequel it transpires that, as an advanced space faring race, the Venimous Knids have, of course, ordered their society in accordance with the principles of Marxism /Leninism and they and the Ompa Lumpas engage in mutually beneficial peaceful discourse.