Respect get sent to Siberia!

[oisleep]

on what must be an expensive jolly for Guy taylor and whoever else is going

A Respect delegation leaves for Siberia on Friday to investigate the oil company British Petroleum (BP) and TNK-BP in response to claims that BP are causing serious environmental damage to large areas of Siberia

if they want to investigate the damage british companies are doing to the environment, surely their time would be better spent in Britiain doing it? or investigating the impact of environmental damage done by these companies within the uk and the areas they are meant to be representing

i'd be interested in finding out more about what guy taylor's (and the rest of the party) qualifications are for assessing such a situation, as given that

Spot checks are regularly carried out by environmental experts across Russia. Alarm bells were rung earlier this year when a number of large-scale unauthorized oil emissions and accompanying mineral oil were found

what possible environmental damage could guy taylor spot in two days that experts have not already uncovered?


http://www.respectcoalition.org/?ite=885

 

[Paul Marsh]

I think the word you are looking for is ........... jolly!

 

[rednblack]

*makes note to join a group that pays for it's members to go on beanos*

don't forget the duty free vodka guy!

 

[Pilgrim]

I think the word you are looking for is ........... jolly!

Or possibly 'junket'.

Or 'beano'.

Or 'yet another pointless waste of the membership's money on something of no lasting political value WHATSOEVER'.

Can any of the RESPECT androids on here tell us what this latest jaunt is meant to accomplish?

Surely, a chat with groups such as Corporate Watch, Friends Of The Earth, Greenpeace or suchlike could yield the necessary information for whatever this free holiday is supposed to be in aid of?

 

[oisleep]

wonder who else is in the respect party, it only mentions guy taylor on the site

it is a bit shocking eh that on the respect website it cries out for money from members, as they are struggling to get by as they don't get donations from business (what about the turners?), then they see fit to spunk it all on this pointless posturing meaningless futile piece of nonsense

 

[Pilgrim]

wonder who else is in the respect party, it only mentions guy taylor on the site

it is a bit shocking eh that on the respect website it cries out for money from members, as they are struggling to get by as they don't get donations from business (what about the turners?), then they see fit to spunk it all on this pointless posturing meaningless futile piece of nonsense

That isn't the only strange thing involving their finances.

The SWP website, fresh from demanding £175,000 from members to help them move the Socialist Worker to new offices, are now demanding members stump up another £150,000 to 'improve the paper'.

That's £325,000 demanded from members this year alone!

Just how much money do the SWP CC need?

And where is it all going?

As far as Guy Taylor goes, this is probably his consolation prize, in commiseration for having let Globalise Resistance effectively go to rack and ruin.

 

[oisleep]

it'd only take £150,000 to improve their paper

 

[Pilgrim]

it'd only take £150,000 to improve their paper

I didn't realise that industrial paper shredders cost as much.

Seriously, there is an issue here.

A party of no more than 3,000 members, with (compared to other parties) a tiny number of full-timers can get through £325,000 in ONE year?

If I was still a member, I'd probably be asking some pretty pointed questions as to where all this cash was going.

£325,000 is a hell of a lot of money for such a small party to go through.

At Trident Ploughshares, admittedly a much smaller organisation, we use about a tenth as much cash to put on four direct action camps a year, demo's, meetings, phone/mail expenses, equipment purchases, printing costs, mailouts, to send our members abroad for other protests and actions and so on.

So, where is all this cash going to?

 

[oisleep]

If I was still a member, I'd probably be asking some pretty pointed questions as to where all this cash was going.

if you were still a member, you probably wouldn't though, if you see what i mean

 

[rednblack]

So, where is all this cash going to?

well they used to employ up to 50 full timers on around 11k per year...

 

[rebel warrior]

So the problem with Respect now is that it is doing something about defending the environment?

I see. Would you rather everyone chose to ignore the damage being done by British companies around the world?

Thursday 13th October 2005
National - London protest
Tell BP to clean up its act
12.30pm, BP offices, 1 Finsbury Circus EC1

Speakers include:

George Galloway MP,
Boris Kagarlitsky (IPROG Russia)
Called by: Anticorporate Association (Russia), Respect, INPROG (Russia) and Globalise Resistance.

Nearest tubes Liverpool Street and Moorgate.

 

[Pilgrim]

if you were still a member, you probably wouldn't though, if you see what i mean

True.

Even after I left, I spent a good few months unlearning the Pavlovian tendency to 'defend THE Party' no matter what.

It was the now well-known Mark Thomas article in the New Statesman (or rather my reaction to it) that finally set me free from the curse that is Trotbotism.

I still think that the people who are stumping up this £325,000 should have the right to know how it is being spent and on what.

But then, the SWP CC will probably never tell. The members will just be told that it is all accounted for and not to worry themselves about it, while further inquiries will be met with stony silence.

Unless, that is, some rank and file member has the guts to stand up to the SWP CC.

Some hope.

 

[oisleep]

and what exactly are they doing rebel warrior?

what will guy taylor uncover that the environmental experts would have missed?

why couldn't they just get a report emailed to them on the damage done from the various studies that have been done by experts

or is it george trying to get on the lecture circuit in the east as well as the west

 

[oisleep]

Unless, that is, some rank and file member has the guts to stand up to the SWP CC.

rebel, happy that the SWP are burning over a grand of cash per member in one year? no problems? value for money?

 

[Pilgrim]

well they used to employ up to 50 full timers on around 11k per year...

Fair enough, full-timers do have to be paid.

But I still feel that the rank and file members should be kept informed about accounting, and that they should have the right to know where money is going, instead of being milked for cash every second minute.

If memory serves (checking my copy of 'Direct Action) the Solidarity Federation keeps open books, or at least they claim to.

I don't see why SWP/RESPECT should be any different.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

A party of no more than 3,000 members, with (compared to other parties) a tiny number of full-timers can get through £325,000 in ONE year?

If I was still a member, I'd probably be asking some pretty pointed questions as to where all this cash was going.

£325,000 is a hell of a lot of money for such a small party to go through.

At Trident Ploughshares, admittedly a much smaller organisation, we use about a tenth as much cash to put on four direct action camps a year, demo's, meetings, phone/mail expenses, equipment purchases, printing costs, mailouts, to send our members abroad for other protests and actions and so on.

So, where is all this cash going to?

1) They don't have a tiny number of full timers.

2) Apart from fulltimers they produce a weekly paper, a monthly magazine and the IS journal. They run a large annual public conference event as well as their internal meetings. They produce huge numbers of posters and placards and leaflets. Remember also that they have sold off their printshop, which in previous years had provided a steady income and they now have to pay for commercial printing.

3) They subsidise some of their satellite parties abroad. The International Socialist Tendency isn't an organisation as such and doesn't have an apparatus of its own. The SWP provides the structure, lays on the meetings, sends out emmissaries, helps groups pay for things etc.

It's very easy to work out where the money goes if you think about it. That said, two seperate appeals for the newspaper in a year does tend to indicate real financial difficulties, particularly in the wake of the sell off of their one real asset.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

But I still feel that the rank and file members should be kept informed about accounting, and that they should have the right to know where money is going

Yes of course. That's a basic requirement of any remotely democratic political organisation. If the membership don't get to see the books then there is something seriously wrong.

 

[rebel warrior]

Yes of course. That's a basic requirement of any remotely democratic political organisation. If the membership don't get to see the books then there is something seriously wrong.

There are reports on finances at National Conference and sometimes at National Committee meetings. Concerned members can therefore find out about such questions if they wish.

 

[Pilgrim]

So the problem with Respect now is that it is doing something about defending the environment?

I see. Would you rather everyone chose to ignore the damage being done by British companies around the world?

Rebel, we already have a thing called the Green Party, which, having been environmentally aware for decades, is dedicated to defending the environment. I wouldn't say it was perfect, that's why I'm no longer a member, but I would find their commitment to environmentalism (with so many years experience) considerably more believable than that of RESPECT.

We also have groups such as Greenpeace (of which I'm still a member) and Friends Of The Earth, both of whom have infinitely more experience defending the environment than do RESPECT.

And your point about everybody ignoring environmental damage is simply hogwash. The Green Party, Greenpeace and Friends Of The Earth were around long before RESPECT reared its ugly head, and they'll be around long after the SWP CC decide to wind up RESPECT if and when it fails.

Does the SWP/RESPECT leadership still have the Green Party in its sights after the Green Party's correct decision (both legally and constitutionally) to refuse an electoral alliance with RESPECT?

Or is this just a thinly veiled attempt to cut the ground from under the feet of the Greens, just when they look like making some sort of breakthrough?

 

[oisleep]

There are reports on finances at National Conference and sometimes at National Committee meetings. Concerned members can therefore find out about such questions if they wish.

for the SWP?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Can you just imagine a suitable "who fucking cares" response here? Because I'm sure you know approximately what the content would be, and it seems to be the case that it doesn't make any difference however many times it's said, so it's probably better not to waste time actually writing one out.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

If you don't care, why are you posting on the thread?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Because I care about the issue of people posting petty RESPECT/SWP threads when they're not even members. If nobody apart from RESPECT-bashers and RESPECT-wonks said anything, somebody might take it that there was general consensus that the issue of RESPECT's internal financing was one of great import politically in the UK.

 

[oisleep]

fucks sake fridgemagnet, first off this thread is about them squandering money on trips to siberia when they claim to have next to no money to conduct campaigns even in the uk, that isn't petty

second, as nigel says, if you're not interested nor care, just try and stay off the thread, you must get what 2-3 respect threads a week, even if that, what's the problem with that? they are all on different topics, not like any of that jesus pish

endless respect threads, ffs, have a word

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I hear the Chatham Waterfowl Association has sent three of its members to examine the state of the Siberian duck population, too. And them with their dodgy accounting, there were all sorts of irregularities when they hired the church hall last month. I'm thinking of starting a thread on it.

This isn't on a mod basis, I phrase those differently, this is just me.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Because I care about the issue of people posting petty RESPECT/SWP threads when they're not even members.

Like all political forums on the internet these ones have political biases. The UK Politics and protest forums are heavily tilted towards left wing activists. If you are a left wing activist or a socialist of any kind in Britain then the doings of organisations like Respect and the SWP are actually pretty important - you come across them regularly, their antics disrupt (or help!) the campaigns you care about or are involved in. It's about context.

Are the SWP or RESPECT important in the greater scheme of British politics? Obviously not. Are they fairly significant in the context of the activities and interests of left wing activists? Yes. Some people seem to have slightly unhealthy obsession with starting new threads about them all the time, but even leaving that aside a politics forum with the inbuilt slant towards protest and left activism that this one has is always going to feature quite a lot of discussion of these matters.

If you don't like it, fine. Don't bother to read those threads.

 

[Matt S]

I must admit, whenever I read about the SWP's finances I have to scrape my jaw off of the floor. They have so much money for their size - it's impressive, even if you don't agree with em.

Matt

 

[oisleep]

I hear the Chatham Waterfowl Association has sent three of its members to examine the state of the Siberian duck population, too. And them with their dodgy accounting, there were all sorts of irregularities when they hired the church hall last month. I'm thinking of starting a thread on it.

This isn't on a mod basis, I phrase those differently, this is just me.

please start a thread on it and allow this one to remain on topic then, i'll be ignoring it if you do though as i don't have any interest in the subject matter, i wouldn't however wish to interject to try and deny the right of others that do though

 

[JoePolitix]

1) 3) They subsidise some of their satellite parties abroad. The International Socialist Tendency isn't an organisation as such and doesn't have an apparatus of its own. The SWP provides the structure, lays on the meetings, sends out emmissaries, helps groups pay for things etc.

Whereas the Clones for a Workers International (CWI) are just so sqeaky clean right? Particularly the Ukrainian section mmm?

Anyone interested (!) try a google search with the terms 'CWI' 'Ukraine' and 'fraud'.

 

[JoePolitix]

Are the SWP or RESPECT important in the greater scheme of British politics? Obviously not.

Unlike CWI mother sect the Socialist Party Of England and Wales (SPEW - how apt!) ofcourse