Release Lockerbie bomber Abdelbasset Ali al-Megrahi or not?

[Azrael]

No what will happen if and when Megrahi returns will be EXACTLY the public shouts of "Allah Akbar" and the burning US flags that we saw when Megrahi's co-accused returned to Libya. and keep Megrahi in jail and put Gaddafi and Queen Elizabeth in jail with him.

Welcome to realpolitik.

I'm not particularly interested in such exterior concerns. They're an unpleasant, but inevitable, aspect of this case. Justice was always going to be compromised by an extradition that involved cutting a deal with a dictator (including the acceptance of a curious demand not to inflict a Scottish jury on Megrahi or his acquitted co-accused, Mr Fhimah). Scots law hasn't a hope in trying to play geo-politics, and should limit itself to doing the right thing by Megrahi. While his multiple murder was ghastly and depraved in every respect, that doesn't mean he should forfeit basic human rights, else the concept is meaningless. If we refuse to inflict a civilised act of retribution we shouldn't inflict an uncivilised one by stealth. Let him die at home, whatever may come of it.

 

[Roadkill]

Let the fucker rot in prison.

He didn't let anyone on that airplane go home to die.

This thread got me reading a few bits about al-Megrahi's trial. I must admit, I hadn't fully appreciated until now how dubious his conviction is. Were it secure I'd completely agree with you - a mass murderer should die in prison - but now I'm not so sure.

Ideally his conviction would be quashed and there'd be a retrial, but since he's terminally ill that's not possible. I'm starting to waver towards the 'stick him on a plane home and have done with it' option.

 

[5t3IIa]

What doi we lose to the Yanks if we do though?

 

[danny la rouge]

Release him. What ends are defeated by sending him home to die? No reasonable ends.

I dislike Kenny MacAskill intensely, but so far he has been quite right on this - the decision is about justice, not international diplomacy.

 

[danny la rouge]

Let the fucker rot in prison.

He didn't let anyone on that airplane go home to die.

I'd like to see the appeal process continue. But regardless of whether he is guilty or not, what makes one person a terrorist and another not can only be measured by their actions. And behaving like as terrorist - as you explicitly here ask the Scottish government to do - would make one a terrorist.

 

[temper_tantrum]

The conviction was incredibly dodgy and it is extremely sad that it has taken a situation such as this to awaken some small measure of interest among most of the media.

 

[not-bono-ever]

MI6 mate worked on this case all those years ago. he was/ is conviced he did it guv

then again, the same bloke told me that Saddam had an arsenal of horror weapons - he later accepted that office gossip is no way to form an opinion & retracted his views

 

[QueenOfGoths]

Release him. What ends are defeated by sending him home to die? No reasonable ends.

I dislike Kenny MacAskill intensely, but so far he has been quite right on this - the decision is about justice, not international diplomacy.

^^^This as well

 

[TopCat]

There was no evidence against this man. None. There was compelling evidence that the plane explosion was caused by others. This man was a sacrifice by the Libyans to get rid of sanctions that were crippling their country. Patriotic or what?

 

[beeboo]

Tricky one this.

Firstly there's the general debate about when it's acceptable to release someone from prison on compassionate grounds. This is a difficult balance in itself - whilst there's certainly cases where terminal illness should definitely be grounds for release, I think there are others where it's not as clear cut. Assuming that compassion and incarceration aren't mutually exclusive, I think there are some cases where a terminally ill person shouldn't be freed because to free them would erode the view that justice had been served. This could be perceived to be the case here.

Secondly, there is the suspicion that this may be a wrongful conviction. In theory this should have no bearing on the outcome, and this should be dealt with via appeal. But in practice, on humane grounds it should perhaps be given consideration (given he may be likely to die before an appeal can be mounted). And there's also the factor that if the conviction is overturned, this opens up a whole new can of worms that many people would like to remain closed (although others would clearly prefer to be wide open).

And finally there's the issue of international relations - which theoretically should have no bearing but I agree realpolitik is bound to come into play and is likely to be the dominant factor, and it's very difficult to call how the opposing sides are going to balance this one out.

So in summary, I've got no fucking idea what they're going to decide

 

[weltweit]

...
So in summary, I've got no fucking idea what they're going to decide

But that was not the point of the thread.
We will know shortly what they decide.

This thread is to ask what you would decide !!

 

[beeboo]

But that was not the point of the thread.
We will know shortly what they decide.

This thread is to ask what you would decide !!

On balance, I'd say they're in a mess they should never have been in in the first place, and the most practical way to extracate themselves would be to release on compassionate grounds. Which is more of a pragmatic than a principled view.

I don't think it's an outcome that is 'justice' for anyone concerned, but I don't think true justice is ever going to happen in this case.

 

[Roadkill]

On balance, I'd say they're in a mess they should never have been in in the first place, and the most practical way to extracate themselves would be to release on compassionate grounds. Which is more of a pragmatic than a principled view.

I don't think it's an outcome that is 'justice' for anyone concerned, but I don't think true justice is ever going to happen in this case.

That's the view I'm coming round to as well.

 

[beeboo]

Although the US has supposedly been exerting pressure on Scotland not to release him, my view is that they are just going through the motions for show. I'm sure they could get their way on this if they seriously wanted to, but I suspect it's more about being *seen* to oppose the release, but letting them do it anyway.

 

[5t3IIa]

I think the general BBC-style consensus is that he's going to be sent back to Libya.

 

[beeboo]

I think the general BBC-style consensus is that he's going to be sent back to Libya.

Sent back as a prisoner or allowed to go back as a free man?

 

[5t3IIa]

Already posted: "Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill is likely to announce his release on compassionate grounds, the BBC revealed last week."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8211003.stm

 

[STFC]

On balance, I'd say they're in a mess they should never have been in in the first place, and the most practical way to extracate themselves would be to release on compassionate grounds. Which is more of a pragmatic than a principled view.

I don't think it's an outcome that is 'justice' for anyone concerned, but I don't think true justice is ever going to happen in this case.

That's the view I'm coming round to as well.

Same here.

 

[hipipol]

That's too reductive a bifurcation.

GS(v)

Radio 4 thief.....

 

[weltweit]

Already posted: "Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill is likely to announce his release on compassionate grounds, the BBC revealed last week."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8211003.stm

And that is what, in a lengthy speech, Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill has just now announced.

al-Megrahi will be released on compassionate grounds.

 

[editor]

And that is what, in a lengthy speech, Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill has just now announced.

al-Megrahi will be released on compassionate grounds.

I thought it was a good speech mind. Very carefully worded but it got across the complexity of the case very well.

 

[detective-boy]

I thought it was a good speech mind. Very carefully worded but it got across the complexity of the case very well.

And particularly impressive in the way you could almost hear him thinking "Right you fucking simplistic media twats ... I know I've got you live in your one o'clock bulletins ... but there's no fucking way I'm going to give you a three-minute soundbite ... this needs to be said properly and in detail and that is exactly what I am going to do ... "

 

[Limejuice]

And particularly impressive in the way you could almost hear him thinking "Right you fucking simplistic media twats ... I know I've got you live in your one o'clock bulletins ... but there's no fucking way I'm going to give you a three-minute soundbite ... this needs to be said properly and in detail and that is exactly what I am going to do ... "

I didn't hear the whole whollop, but did he at any time, while dealing with the strength of feeling in the US, mention that people in Scotland died too, and that the US has no exclusivity to outraged victimhood?

 

[weltweit]

I thought it was a good speech mind. Very carefully worded but it got across the complexity of the case very well.

Yes, I agree, it was a good speech.

There are going to be some upset Americans

 

[STFC]

Yes, I agree, it was a good speech.

There are going to be some upset Americans

Not just Americans...

 

[weltweit]

I didn't hear the whole whollop, but did he at any time, while dealing with the strength of feeling in the US, mention that people in Scotland died too, and that the US has no exclusivity to outraged victimhood?

I don't think he said that specifically no. He did say that he had meetings with people, and that he had a conference call with americans.

 

[Limejuice]

Yes, some pretty vocal opposition from Scots as well as Americans.

 

[gnoriac]

And that is what, in a lengthy speech, Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill has just now announced.

Waaaay too long, went on forever. As soon as you thought he was going to come to any conclusion, he came up with another 'However...'.

I'm sure Neville Chamberlain's declaration of war didn't take that long.

 

[T & P]

Good to see the Scottish government has a spine on them. Can you ever see the British government daring to upset its masters in Washington had the prisoner been under English jurisdiction?

LOL!


The man is innocent anyway. He's been fucked up enough as it is.

 

[STFC]

And he (Mr MacAskill) stressed that he accepted the conviction and sentence which had been handed to Megrahi.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/south_of_scotland/8197370.stm

I don't believe him.