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Reclaim Brixton movement - meetings and April 25th protest planned

well no, it would have been pointless to try to challenge it yesterday. But I thought it worth raising it today because I read it as being divisive.

Maybe I'm wrong, and part of the point of yesterday was to emphasise division between those who've been here a short time- the 'yuppies'- and those who've been here long enough to claim it's 'OUR Brixton'. How long is that?

I think you're wrong, yes. When I was in amongst people shouting that, it was being called by everyone who was there: young, old, black, white, men, women, people who looked like they were probably recent incomers, and others who've lived here for a long old while. There was no segregation or apartheid of any kind in the crowd. It was a very mixed group of all aspects of Brixton. I made a particular effort to look at the crowd to see who was calling that chant, exactly because I was wondering about it. I was very cheered and reassured to see that people who appeared to me to be recent incomers were side by side with older more "traditional" Brixtonians.

The issue, for me, is about the craven exploitation of a place, a location, a community, a way of living, a local culture, that is in many ways unique to Brixton.

As has been discussed, Brixton has always been a place of change. That's one of the things that makes it what it is. But these recent changes have a kind of groupie wannabe aspect. Like everyone suddenly discovering the hot new band and trying to pretend they've been into them for aaaages.

I've been in Brixton since about 1987. These most recent changes feel as if a whole culture - a largely white privileged culture at that - has been parachuted in. It's like regime change, or colonialisation.


the people chanting were those seeking claim "OUR Brixton" to the exclusion of other people. I'd have thought that was obvious, even just from youtube or flikr.

I wandered through Brixton markets before during and after the demo. There were loads of people simply going about their business: an old man skanking gently to My Boy Lollipop on Station Road, biddies with their shopping trollies, mothers dragging children in and out of shops and along the markets, plenty of people in the eateries with their toddlers, lots and lots of people who may or may not have known or cared about the demo going on nearby, not bothered, not interested, too busy, whatever. To my mind, most if not all of them were "Our Brixton" people, wanting to simply live and shop and socialise and move about in Brixton without feeling as if they were in any way different from each other, or at risk of being unable for reasons of money to continue living and eating and shopping in Brixton. None of them were demonstrating or chanting. But they were in no way being excluded by the chanting: the chanting was in defence of their normal Saturday afternoon.

Or so it seemed to me.

surely the ideal is to get everyone, rich, young, poor, old, etc, etc wanting change in brixton. wanting to screw the greedy landlords, the heartless local politicians. no matter how long someone has been in brixton, if you live there you have a right to say "we don;t want our town turned into a rich ghetto". keep fighting!

Yes, and that's why I liked it so much that there were several different types of demo and actio., and all of those I saw involved people from all walks of life.

It felt very inclusive to me.


Indeed, at worst it is a parasite though, arguably, more properly the agent of parasites.

Having had recent cause to talk to estate agents, the local independents (Eden Harper, Martin Barry) both roll their eyes at Foxtons and say that they are known in the trade to hike their prices by 25% as a matter of course. It gets the seller to put their property on with them, and even if they have to drop the price, they get the commission. If they know they've overvalued a property (which they do) they just let it rot on the market for a month or so, then advise the owner to drop the price. There are enough people willing or able or foolish enough to pay the higher price to make it worth their while, and that hikes the price of property locally. Their valuer doesn't live locally, he comes in from an office in North London and values properties here on the fly, in and out the door in 15 minutes. And he's known in the trade to be (and I quote) "A real bell end".

Foxtons are scum. So are Kinleigh Folkard & Hayward.

I don't think smashing up a place you love is very unique, but that's just my opinion

Just gonna add my voice to the earlier chorus saying that the places that were targeted are not loved by the local community.





As for the thing about it being a shame that a broken window and storming the police station made the news at the expense of the story of the peaceful demo: well of course the headline is about the direct action; but those stories I saw in the press did also cover the reasons for the demo and the fact that it was also/mostly happy and peaceful. More importantly, most people these days are fairly savvy about googling to learn more about news that interests them. Didn't shaman75 say that the video of people dancing on the blocked A23 had had 40 thousand views and shares? People will surf and link from one story to another and get an idea of the background very easily and naturally. It's a cliche (cos it's true) that if there'd been no broken window, there'd be no headline, and the whole day would have been a footnote rather than a story. Because of Brixton's history (civil disobedience, Thatcher death parties, uprisings and riots etc), any story about any action here will draw interest.
 
I recall Brixton was ok 10 years ago, but thats just my opinion. I'm not sure what is better now
I love urban architecture, I'm a townie, but I would ask who is preserving the buildings and for whom?
eg. If Lambeth was proposing demolishing Olive Morris House in order to build council houses, I doubt many people would be objecting. If network rail was renovating the arches for the benefit of their existing tenents, I doubt customers would have been out on saturday holding hands.

Seem there was a time that preserving was about protecting heritage - now it whether you can make a place prettier and more interesting so you can sell it to people who know little about it 0 like providing a provenance to the space that improves its value.
 
Oh, and I meant to say: that thing about the youngsters being annoyed about not being able to get a bus: well young'uns often feel aggrieved about anything that obstructs their own plans. And in contrast to what you, newbie , overheard, I offer this in contrast: I was walking up the Hill and fell into step with a very pregnant woman who said "Whoo! No buses!", so I said "Yeah, cos of the demo, I hope you've not got far to go." She said she wished she could be at the demo herself because she wanted her child to grow up in the Brixton she knows and loves and she's worried about the changes, she was glad someone is trying to reclaim Brixton from the Guppies [sic].
 
Only if you're inward looking and with no class analysis.
I don't think we should all need a fucking degree in economic or political history to post here. I don't need 'class analysis' to know when people are being shafted.

snip...
and while there are aspects of class involved here I don't think deploying class as part of this discussion will achieve anything other than division. Neither existing communities nor any of the wave after wave of incomers are delineated by class, and this notion that all incomers are m/c is just lazy stereotyping.
I agree. There has a lot of divisiveness on these boards when we could all support the issues.
Those in power like it when people fight amongst themselves, they know it distracts us from fighting them.
Why else would they try to divide us into strivers and skivers? I hear lots of my low paid co-workers who have bought into this lie and will argue against their own neighbours/communities.
 
snip...
I was very cheered and reassured to see that people who appeared to me to be recent incomers were side by side with older more "traditional" Brixtonians.

The issue, for me, is about the craven exploitation of a place, a location, a community, a way of living, a local culture, that is in many ways unique to Brixton.

As has been discussed, Brixton has always been a place of change. That's one of the things that makes it what it is. But these recent changes have a kind of groupie wannabe aspect. Like everyone suddenly discovering the hot new band and trying to pretend they've been into them for aaaages.

I've been in Brixton since about 1987. These most recent changes feel as if a whole culture - a largely white privileged culture at that - has been parachuted in. It's like regime change, or colonialisation.




I wandered through Brixton markets before during and after the demo. There were loads of people simply going about their business: an old man skanking gently to My Boy Lollipop on Station Road, biddies with their shopping trollies, mothers dragging children in and out of shops and along the markets, plenty of people in the eateries with their toddlers, lots and lots of people who may or may not have known or cared about the demo going on nearby, not bothered, not interested, too busy, whatever. To my mind, most if not all of them were "Our Brixton" people, wanting to simply live and shop and socialise and move about in Brixton without feeling as if they were in any way different from each other, or at risk of being unable for reasons of money to continue living and eating and shopping in Brixton. None of them were demonstrating or chanting. But they were in no way being excluded by the chanting: the chanting was in defence of their normal Saturday afternoon.

Or so it seemed to me.



Yes, and that's why I liked it so much that there were several different types of demo and actio., and all of those I saw involved people from all walks of life.

It felt very inclusive to me.
Yes. Brixton always felt generally full of people who didn't care where you are from or what you do or why you have a funny haircut. Everyone was tolerated. Coming from a small town, small minded, close knit community - Brixton felt like freedom.

I think any protests need to be inclusive of all the people of Brixton, including ones you don't like, if they are to succeed.
 
Seem there was a time that preserving was about protecting heritage - now it whether you can make a place prettier and more interesting so you can sell it to people who know little about it 0 like providing a provenance to the space that improves its value.

History reduced to a "selling point". :(
 
Oh, and I meant to say: that thing about the youngsters being annoyed about not being able to get a bus: well young'uns often feel aggrieved about anything that obstructs their own plans. And in contrast to what you, newbie , overheard, I offer this in contrast: I was walking up the Hill and fell into step with a very pregnant woman who said "Whoo! No buses!", so I said "Yeah, cos of the demo, I hope you've not got far to go." She said she wished she could be at the demo herself because she wanted her child to grow up in the Brixton she knows and loves and she's worried about the changes, she was glad someone is trying to reclaim Brixton from the Guppies [sic].
damn those guppies
Cobra-Snakeskin-Guppy1.jpg
 
History reduced to a "selling point". :(

Feels like it. Look what is happening to central London as more high rises take away London's more traditional skyline and things are only protected if they can really be justified. I am reporting the disappearance of the murals in the Elephant and Castle subways as they get buried. They reflect the diversity and history of the area and the burying of the paintings of this seems to symbolise what will happen once the nu-heygate is finished and the shopping centre changes.
 
I don't think we should all need a fucking degree in economic or political history to post here. I don't need 'class analysis' to know when people are being shafted.

To be fair, you're doing "class analysis" every time you sit down and think about how people are getting shafted. "Class analysis" isn't about being able to quote Marx or understand the intricacies of all three volumes of "Capital", it's about recognising the reality of most shafting-like social situations being based on the oppression of one group by another.

I agree. There has a lot of divisiveness on these boards when we could all support the issues.
Those in power like it when people fight amongst themselves, they know it distracts us from fighting them.
Why else would they try to divide us into strivers and skivers? I hear lots of my low paid co-workers who have bought into this lie and will argue against their own neighbours/communities.

In my own personal experience, arguing on here has honed my arguments "out there". Rather than distracting me, I've been able to tackle the powerful cogently and coherently.
 
Feels like it. Look what is happening to central London as more high rises take away London's more traditional skyline and things are only protected if they can really be justified. I am reporting the disappearance of the murals in the Elephant and Castle subways as they get buried. They reflect the diversity and history of the area and the burying of the paintings of this seems to symbolise what will happen once the nu-heygate is finished and the shopping centre changes.

The fate of the Heygate always brings a wry smile to my face, knowing my parents were evicted (along with my toddler brother and an infant me) from their private rental slum bedsitter after the landlord got CPOd to make way for the Heygate. The circle of London life writ small. :)

The problem you mention is not just London-wide, either, sadly. It's anywhere that the past can be packaged into something that can be sold - a no-longer-used town hall sold to a developer and internally-divided into flats and given a twee slightly-referential name (happened in Norfolk). 3-4 century-old tithe barns turned into holiday accommodation - all that sort of stuff that shows no...well, I was going to say reverence, but it doesn't even show a modicum of respect for history, IMO.
 
The fate of the Heygate always brings a wry smile to my face, knowing my parents were evicted (along with my toddler brother and an infant me) from their private rental slum bedsitter after the landlord got CPOd to make way for the Heygate. The circle of London life writ small. :)

The problem you mention is not just London-wide, either, sadly. It's anywhere that the past can be packaged into something that can be sold - a no-longer-used town hall sold to a developer and internally-divided into flats and given a twee slightly-referential name (happened in Norfolk). 3-4 century-old tithe barns turned into holiday accommodation - all that sort of stuff that shows no...well, I was going to say reverence, but it doesn't even show a modicum of respect for history, IMO.

I've got a book of Elephant and Castle History if you want to borrow it. I was born at Lambeth Hospital up that way.

I briefly lived in a tower block on Hackney downs - it was interesting to see that it had replaced nice large Victorian houses in about 1972. Five of the six block built were pulled down in the late 1990s.

Here's my block (sorry it's a Top Gear clip :():



What replaced it was all low rise housing on a similar scale to that which had been removed!

Lots of nice looking buildings with a story are being sold off to be turned into flats - the police station in Penge is one example.
 
To be fair, you're doing "class analysis" every time you sit down and think about how people are getting shafted. "Class analysis" isn't about being able to quote Marx or understand the intricacies of all three volumes of "Capital", it's about recognising the reality of most shafting-like social situations being based on the oppression of one group by another.



In my own personal experience, arguing on here has honed my arguments "out there". Rather than distracting me, I've been able to tackle the powerful cogently and coherently.
Thanks. So many threads on urban make me feel that no ones allowed to join in unless they can quote Marx. Its a odd elitism.

I wasn't really sure what the 'Reclaim Brixton' day of protest was about from this thread. Many posters here have been aggressive to any view that isn't their own, I really thought I might not be welcome on day. That's why I went to see for myself, and I heard some really interesting viewpoints. I neatly combined all the various campaigns around Lambeth including housing, the arches, the markets, the libraries etc in a way that didn't put anyone down, other than the councillors and politicians.
 
Thanks. So many threads on urban make me feel that no ones allowed to join in unless they can quote Marx. Its a odd elitism.

I think part of it depends on the political milieu in which you were raised - I was fortunate to grow up in an environment which was not only permeated by class politics, but was also rife with examples of classism, so I got to know Marx, but at the same time as learning practical working-class everyday politics like never giving a fascist, racist or queer-basher an even break.
TBF, Marx's analysis is fit for the industrial era, not the post-industrial era. While we can draw lessons from it, we can't really apply it meaningfully to the modern day without re-writing it to take into account 160+ years of changing social and industrial circumstances, so while quoting him is an okay party trick, it's pretty meaningless in terms of gauging someone's analysis of or commitment to class politics!

I wasn't really sure what the 'Reclaim Brixton' day of protest was about from this thread. Many posters here have been aggressive to any view that isn't their own, I really thought I might not be welcome on day. That's why I went to see for myself, and I heard some really interesting viewpoints. I neatly combined all the various campaigns around Lambeth including housing, the arches, the markets, the libraries etc in a way that didn't put anyone down, other than the councillors and politicians.

Posters do tend to be volubly defensive of their own viewpoints, and sometimes I think it can crowd out those who are less assertive. That said, in my experience if you're making a decent point, most people will eventually listen once they've told you that you're wrong!
 
I've got a book of Elephant and Castle History if you want to borrow it. I was born at Lambeth Hospital up that way.

Thanks. I'll take you up on the loan offer once I've thinned the embarrassingly-large "to read" pile that I've allowed to build up. :oops:

I briefly lived in a tower block on Hackney downs - it was interesting to see that it had replaced nice large Victorian houses in about 1972. Five of the six block built were pulled down in the late 1990s.

Here's my block (sorry it's a Top Gear clip :():



What replaced it was all low rise housing on a similar scale to that which had been removed!


Planners realised you could achieve the same housing density with low rise, without many of the attendant maintenance problems, and obviating some of the social problems.

Lots of nice looking buildings with a story are being sold off to be turned into flats - the police station in Penge is one example.

Was it replaced?
 
Right or wrong it's just history repeating its self.
The same could be said about genocide; even if there's a tendancy for things to recur it doesn't mean that you (or I, or anyone else) shouldn't do whatever's possible to prevent, reduce, or stop them.
 
The same could be said about genocide; even if there's a tendancy for things to recur it doesn't mean that you (or I, or anyone else) shouldn't do whatever's possible to prevent, reduce, or stop them.
Stop them???? I understand what your saying about pushing family's out etc. That's crap. Brixton is 15 mins away on the train from central London. The population of London is growing at dramatic rates so people need to live somewhere. You can't stop people wanting to live closer to there work and want to enjoy a change. Who ever 'them' are. You can't blame people for wanting a change. You should blame the goverment for not providing a better solution.
 
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