Reclaim Brixton movement - meetings and April 25th protest planned

[Pickman's model]

What about the teens at the busstop? Do you care what they, and others born and bred locally, think when they hear some 22 year old from the Home Counties megaphoning "Whose Brixton, Our Brixton" along Atlantic Road?



< no, I don't know for sure, does it matter, somebody who heard the chanting was born and bred in the area>

you don't know if they meant 'protesters stealing my saturday' or 'police stealing my saturday' or 'employers stealing my saturday' or something else.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Whilst I agree in theory it's interesting how you have the skill to ascertain that those involved in the protest were from 'far and wide' whilst those wandering past were 'members of an awful lot of Brixton communities'.

It's newbie. He just knows these things.

 

[Dexter Deadwood]

It's you that said "I don't care what they think.", not me.

Some of them post, or have posted here, or on the various blogs and so on. It doesn't matter whether I agree with them or loathe every view they hold I don't blame them personally for neo-liberalism, gentrification, our co-operative council or any of the other structural issues at the heart of yesterdays protest. Do you?

I can't cope with your supernatural powers of reasoning and deduction. Being able to read other peoples minds is a special skill, look after it.

 

[newbie]

But this suggests that a protest is only legitimate if every single person in the community has been consulted on it. which would be a logistical nightmare. I'm sure following Saturday a lot more people DO know about it and the issues than before it. That's the whole point of gathering together and making a lot of noise.

uh huh, and I supported yesterdays protest. But, as said, that particular chant made me uncomfortable, and appeared to be at odds with the position being put forward by the compere, which I think was close to what those groups who coalesced to organise the protest wanted to say.

 

[Dexter Deadwood]

Just dropped a comment on the Brixton Blog piece asking the author to have a bit of self-respect.

I've just posted a comment as well.

 

[newbie]

you don't know if they meant 'protesters stealing my saturday' or 'police stealing my saturday' or 'employers stealing my saturday' or something else.

I only quoted part of the overheard conversation, but yes, I think I got a reasonable impression. A woman who also overheard explained what was going on. When she'd finished and moved on they rolled their eyes. I don't know exactly what their thoughts were because I didn't ask them.

That little incident happened to me. I used it to illustrate a general point. Folk can pick over the incident to prove me somehow incapable of observing what happened, or perhaps, could discuss the general point.

 

[newbie]

I can't cope with your supernatural powers of reasoning and deduction. Being able to read other peoples minds is a special skill, look after it.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Do you support the chant of "Whose Brixton, Our Brixton", and if so why?

 

[Citizen66]

uh huh, and I supported yesterdays protest. But, as said, that particular chant made me uncomfortable, and appeared to be at odds with the position being put forward by the compere, which I think was close to what those groups who coalesced to organise the protest wanted to say.

"Whose Brixton, Our Brixton"?

It's just a rehash of "Whose streets, our streets" from the original reclaim the streets.

 

[Pickman's model]

I only quoted part of the overheard conversation, but yes, I think I got a reasonable impression. A woman who also overheard explained what was going on. When she'd finished and moved on they rolled their eyes. I don't know exactly what their thoughts were because I didn't ask them.

That little incident happened to me. I used it to illustrate a general point. Folk can pick over the incident to prove me somehow incapable of observing what happened, or perhaps, could discuss the general point.

what, that you use a single incident to generalise from, despite generalisations being at best only partially true? i do not believe the evidential basis for your point secures your point, i suggest it in fact weakens it.

 

[ffsear]

Why did no one kick the shit out of the window breaker ?

Probably some wannabe anachist fuck who dosen't give 2 fucks about brixon

 

[newbie]

"Whose Brixton, Our Brixton"?

It's just a rehash of "Whose streets, our streets" from the original reclaim the streets.

but with different overtones and connotations. A bunch of pedestrians liberating roads from traffic is not the same as members fairly narrow subcultures claiming an area where hundreds of thousands of people live for their own.

 

[newbie]

what, that you use a single incident to generalise from, despite generalisations being at best only partially true? i do not believe the evidential basis for your point secures your point, i suggest it in fact weakens it.

but I didn't use a single incident, I tied it back to another one some years ago when another relatively spontaneous protest also closed the road and stopped the buses. Don't the people affected matter? Are those on the protest so much more important than the ones on whose behalf they claim to be acting, those who are being and will be affected by gentrifcation (or by cars in the case of RTS)?

 

[Citizen66]

but with different overtones and connotations. A bunch of pedestrians liberating roads from traffic is not the same as members fairly narrow subcultures claiming an area where hundreds of thousands of people live for their own.

I'm not sure people have impromptu conferences analysing what popular protest chants might be unrepresentative whilst on a demonstration.

 

[editor]

I only quoted part of the overheard conversation, but yes, I think I got a reasonable impression. A woman who also overheard explained what was going on. When she'd finished and moved on they rolled their eyes. I don't know exactly what their thoughts were because I didn't ask them.

That little incident happened to me. I used it to illustrate a general point. Folk can pick over the incident to prove me somehow incapable of observing what happened, or perhaps, could discuss the general point.

You sure seemed to be overhearing a lot of things on Saturday.

 

[editor]

Why did no one kick the shit out of the window breaker ?

Probably some wannabe anachist fuck who dosen't give 2 fucks about brixon

I wouldn't stop anyone kicking in a Foxtons window and I certainly wouldn't inflict violence on them. Why should I?

 

[Citizen66]

Why did no one kick the shit out of the window breaker ?

Probably some wannabe anachist fuck who dosen't give 2 fucks about brixon

Cock.

 

[ffsear]

I wouldn't stop anyone kicking in a Foxtons window and I certainly wouldn't inflict violence on them. Why should I?

But why on a day when (some) of the world is watching a supposedly peaceful protest that has a point. Peoples efforts have been undermined by 1 idiot

 

[newbie]

I'm not sure people have impromptu conferences analysing what popular protest chants might be unrepresentative whilst on a demonstration.

well no, it would have been pointless to try to challenge it yesterday. But I thought it worth raising it today because I read it as being divisive.

Maybe I'm wrong, and part of the point of yesterday was to emphasise division between those who've been here a short time- the 'yuppies'- and those who've been here long enough to claim it's 'OUR Brixton'. How long is that?

 

[newbie]

You sure seemed to be overhearing a lot of things on Saturday.

what? I reported a chant that was repeated over and over again, and one snippet of overheard conversation, plus what the compere said.

 

[editor]

well no, it would have been pointless to try to challenge it yesterday. But I thought it worth raising it today because I read it as being divisive.

Maybe I'm wrong, and part of the point of yesterday was to emphasise division between those who've been here a short time- the 'yuppies'- and those who've been here long enough to claim it's 'OUR Brixton'. How long is that?

Not everyone who has been here a short time is a "yuppie."

 

[editor]

But why on a day when (some) of the world is watching a supposedly peaceful protest that has a point. Peoples efforts have been undermined by 1 idiot

Most people are grown up enough to realise that this one small incident was just that. A small incident.

 

[newbie]

But why on a day when (some) of the world is watching a supposedly peaceful protest that has a point. Peoples efforts have been undermined by 1 idiot

It's not something I'd do mysewlf, but I don't have much of an issue with using a Foxtons window as a symbol. They have, after all, positioned themselves as a major figurehead for the problem.

'Yuppies Out', otoh, points a finger at some people from a presumed highground which may be perfectly justifiable but quite possibly isn't.

 

[Pickman's model]

but I didn't use a single incident, I tied it back to another one some years ago when another relatively spontaneous protest also closed the road and stopped the buses. Don't the people affected matter? Are those on the protest so much more important than the ones on whose behalf they claim to be acting, those who are being and will be affected by gentrifcation (or by cars in the case of RTS)?

when you say some years ago you in fact mean about 19 years ago. tbh if you fortuitously overheard a lot of people tutting and that then yes, you might have a point. but what i saw yesterday gave me the impression that the people around the demonstration were broadly supportive. although i have no doubt it was not universally popular - what is? - i neither saw nor heard any swell of disapprobation. and even you don't seem to have seen or heard much bar this solitary exchange. you're reading to much into it, frankly, as while these women may have been frustrated at being inconvenienced that hardly leads directly to their adopting the attitudes you imagine for them.

 

[ffsear]

Most people are grown up enough to realise that this one small incident was just that. A small incident.

Yet it's become the icon of yesterday. Most of the reports I have read feature the picture of the smashed window .

 

[shaman75]

The original mobile video I uploaded of this to facebook and then made public so a friend could share it has gone a bit viral and currently has over 50K views... About 40K were today.

 

[editor]

Yet it's become the icon of yesterday. Most of the reports I have read feature the picture of the smashed window .

That's how the media works, Thankfully those who were at the event - and those with any real interest in the issues - generally manage to see a bit further than a photo of a relatively minor bit of damage.

 

[ffsear]

But for raising awareness, its less then helpful. I thought that was the whole point

 

[newbie]

Not everyone who has been here a short time is a "yuppie."

well those who've been allocated social housing in the area won't feel themselves targetted. Apart from that, who else has moved into the area recently that isn't, in some way or other, pricing out previous occupants?

The driver, surely, for the discontent is that what was once a cheap area where relatively poorly paid people could afford to live and shop is changing to exclude them. That local rents and sales, and the incoming shops, price out all but 'yuppies', a shorthand word for those who can afford to buy into the area.

 

[stethoscope]

I don't know why people do this 'oh, the protest was great and peaceful but it was all undermined by an idiot who [invariably breaks a windows of a capitalist interest]'. Such a load of liberal handwringing bullshit and it doesn't undermine it all.

Most protests/demos would be pretty ineffective if they followed the state/police/authorities rules and restrictions on 'acceptable' protest.

Besides, breaking the window of an estate agent seems a more productive use of energy than being a broker of the financial kind.

 

[shaman75]

Some pics: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.972418869444551.1073741865.151184141568032&type=3