Possible unemployment due too sickness

[Argonia]

Help and advice please

I have been working in a primary school for a year and five months. In September I had a month off due to being in psychiatric hospital. I was then given a phased return but was told at that point by occupational health that they weren't sure I should be working with children. Then in the middle of January I got unwell again and was not hospitalised but was treated in the community and given a one month sick note by the doctor. I now have another meeting lined up with occupational health and am worried they are going to say that I cannot go back to my job. Unemployment is the worst case scenario for me. The time in September was my fourth period in a psychiatric ward which was the reason for occupational health questioning me going back to the job at that stage of proceedings.

Any help or advice from anybody who knows about these things?

 

[Pickman's model]

cesare

 

[Argonia]

Apologies for the typo in the title of this thread!

 

[nogojones]

are you in a union?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

this probably has more advice than i can usefully offer - has links / resources

hope things get better for you soon

 

[Thimble Queen]

I have some experience of this, from a personal perspective rather than detailed knowledge of employment law. Did they say why they thought you may not be fit? What is your therapist/mh professionals opinion, presuming you talked this through with them.

Sorry you are worrying about this as well as being unwell. Solidarity

 

[cesare]

Did occupational health say why they weren't sure that you should be working with children?

 

[Argonia]

Thanks very much for your replies. No, I am not in a union. The reason occupational health suggested I might not go back was from the point of view of safeguarding the children. I haven't been able to get my therapist's opinion on the matter yet.

 

[billy_bob]

Without knowing why you were in psychiatric hospital it's hard to assess the validity of OH's statement. That's not me needling you to reveal more than you want to though.

A close relative who teaches in an FE college found that his OH bent over backwards to re-accommodate him after a spell in psychiatric hospital. All appearances suggested that they were pretty afraid he'd hold the employer responsible for it all, for putting him (/all staff) under completely unreasonable levels of stress. I guess the nature of your illness comes into it though, and safeguarding issues in a primary school are rather different to those in FE.

 

[billy_bob]

BTW if you have a long-term condition it can almost certainly be regarded as a disability under the Equality Act. If you feel your employer is treating you differently to other staff because of a mental health problem, talking to them in terms of equalities legislation should give them a good kick up the arse, especially in the public sector (again, acknowledging of course that there might be some cases in which safeguarding concerns 'trump' these protections....)

This might be useful: http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/your-organisation/support-workplace/where-do-i-stand-legally

 

[8115]

I don't have much to add on the legal side or whatever but I have left a few jobs (some I liked, some I definitely did not) for the same kind of reason.

The only thing I would say is, if you do leave, don't view it as a total and permanent failure. It doesn't mean that you will never work, or never work with children again. Make your own health your main priority, I didn't do this and probably actually ended up loosing a job I liked by hanging on and being afraid to take time off.

Obviously financially it can be a different story, but that's the lesson I learnt from my own experience.

Good luck!

 

[8115]

And also, if you don't go back, get good benefits advice. Again this isn't something I did and I really took a long time to really get well because I couldn't make myself a priority.

 

[billy_bob]

BTW if you have a long-term condition it can almost certainly be regarded as a disability under the Equality Act. If you feel your employer is treating you differently to other staff because of a mental health problem, talking to them in terms of equalities legislation should give them a good kick up the arse, especially in the public sector (again, acknowledging of course that there might be some cases in which safeguarding concerns 'trump' these protections....)

This might be useful: http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/your-organisation/support-workplace/where-do-i-stand-legally

Just been re-reading the link and refreshing my knowledge of the legislation. I think the key point is, they'd be on shaky ground claiming that you were not fit to work in a school simply on the basis that you have a mental health problem, whatever it might be, and have been in psychiatric hospital. I think you have a right to expect that any assessment that children could be put at risk if you were to continue working with them should be based on specific evidence with reference to your personal circumstances, behaviour, etc. - not simply on an on-paper 'condition'.

 

[8115]

BTW if you have a long-term condition it can almost certainly be regarded as a disability under the Equality Act. If you feel your employer is treating you differently to other staff because of a mental health problem, talking to them in terms of equalities legislation should give them a good kick up the arse, especially in the public sector (again, acknowledging of course that there might be some cases in which safeguarding concerns 'trump' these protections....)

This might be useful: http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/your-organisation/support-workplace/where-do-i-stand-legally

It might be about ability to safeguard the children, rather than anything else.

It's a bit of a tactless and unfortunate thing to say though.

 

[billy_bob]

It might be about ability to safeguard the children, rather than anything else.

It's a bit of a tactless and unfortunate thing to say though.

Yes, there's a bit of a difference between alleging that someone may not/may no longer be a suitable 'responsible person' to ensure children are safeguarded, and alleging that they themselves actually pose a direct threat. In either case, though, there ought to be an objective assessment of any supposed risk, not just an assumption.

 

[Argonia]

The initial stay in the psychiatric ward was for suspected schizophrenia, the second period of time that I have had off has been for depression. Thanks again for all your comments and support, it's very much appreciated.

 

[harpo]

Neither of those conditions inevitably means you pose any risk.

What do you want? I know you say unemployment is the worst case scenario but is there some part of the job that's making you unwell?

 

[Argonia]

Neither of those conditions inevitably means you pose any risk.

What do you want? I know you say unemployment is the worst case scenario but is there some part of the job that's making you unwell?

I want to go back to the job. I have thought about asking for part-time hours.

 

[harpo]

I want to go back to the job. I have thought about asking for part-time hours.

They have to consider reasonable adjustments. May I ask if you are under a Community Mental Health team? Because if so, they may have an employment specialist who could help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPS_Supported_Employment

 

[Argonia]

They have to consider reasonable adjustments. May I ask if you are under a Community Mental Health team? Because if so, they may have an employment specialist who could help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPS_Supported_Employment

Thanks. I am under a community mental health team at the moment but I don't think they have an employment specialist unfortunately. I have considered asking for part-time hours, maybe four days a week, but am just concerned that I have to fight to keep the job at all and that there is going to be pressure not to continue at all. I was told by the Richmond Fellowship that occupational health's advice isn't binding and that the employer can decide to do whatever they want but the tone of the last occupational health meeting was very much one of "you probably shouldn't be working with kids from a safeguarding point of view" and that is what makes me scared about the prospect of the next meeting which is next Wednesday. Another thing is that I was trying to get an advocate sorted out to come an visit the meeting on Wednesday but haven't been able to do so in time.

 

[cesare]

Have you tried the new Fit For Work website? You can get advice from the advice hub which is quite comprehensive, or live chat with an adviser, or ring the helpline. http://fitforwork.org/

 

[harpo]

But definitely ask your care co-ordinator if there is help, just in case there is.

 

[billy_bob]

Thanks. I am under a community mental health team at the moment but I don't think they have an employment specialist unfortunately. I have considered asking for part-time hours, maybe four days a week, but am just concerned that I have to fight to keep the job at all and that there is going to be pressure not to continue at all. I was told by the Richmond Fellowship that occupational health's advice isn't binding and that the employer can decide to do whatever they want but the tone of the last occupational health meeting was very much one of "you probably shouldn't be working with kids from a safeguarding point of view" and that is what makes me scared about the prospect of the next meeting which is next Wednesday. Another thing is that I was trying to get an advocate sorted out to come an visit the meeting on Wednesday but haven't been able to do so in time.

Take a friend, a colleague you trust - anyone - if you can. I completely understand how a meeting like that can feel intimidatin,g but try and think of it in terms of the onus being on them to demonstrate why "you probably shouldn't be working with kids". Force them to show their hand - they're not actually allowed to hound you out* simply by creating a tone or making insinuations. Ask very politely and calmly but firmly to see their evidence base. You might find it changes to dynamic in your favour much more easily than you're expecting, if they don't actually have one.

I know that's easier said than done but good luck.

*that may be inappropriately emotive language. I'm not suggesting they're bullying you necessarily - it's more likely to be ignorance, or slavish following of what they perceive to be the rules.

 

[equationgirl]

If you can get any letters from your consultant or the community mental health team then that may help your position Argonia

Best of luck, it's the last thing you need to be worrying about x

 

[Argonia]

Thanks for all your support, advice, ideas and help. I will let you know how Wednesday's meeting goes.

 

[story]

Further to what billy_bob has said, bringing an advocate with you and having a clear set of questions and knowing your own convictions will demonstrate that you aren't some kind of mental weirdo, that you can take responsibility, that you have clarity of thought, that you know your own rights and position etc.

And if you then feel that you've been discriminated against or treated unfairly, you'll have a starting position for arguing your case more strongly.

I'd also suggest arming yourself with some stats about how unlikely it is that people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia pose any risk to the community.

 

[purenarcotic]

Has something happened to a child when they have been in your care? Did something happen before you were last sectioned to put a child at risk? If not then I think it's fair to argue they should be making reasonable adjustments to support you, not effectively push you out the door. And even if something had happened then I think they need to think about what it was, how likely it is to happen again, what treatment you're getting to help you stay well and so on and so on.

 

[Argonia]

Has something happened to a child when they have been in your care? Did something happen before you were last sectioned to put a child at risk? If not then I think it's fair to argue they should be making reasonable adjustments to support you, not effectively push you out the door. And even if something had happened then I think they need to think about what it was, how likely it is to happen again, what treatment you're getting to help you stay well and so on and so on.

Thanks for the question. There have been no adverse incidents, no.

 

[equationgirl]

Thanks for all your support, advice, ideas and help. I will let you know how Wednesday's meeting goes.

Feel free to ask other questions - your employers have a legal obligation to make what is called reasonable adjustments to help support you in your work after your diagnosis (whatever it is). Can you think of any they could make to support you in your role? I'm not sure what you exact role or diagnosis is, obviously, and reasonable adjustments are very varied but the ones I have are that any time I have off sick that is related to my disability isn't counted towards the official records of sick time, whereas flu would be. If you need time during the day to take medication as fixed time then one thing might be to give you additional short breaks in the morning and afternoon, for example.

 

[equationgirl]

Thanks for the question. There have been no adverse incidents, no.

And seeing as there have been absolutely no incidents it would seem more of a knee-jerk reaction to your medical condition in my opinion.