NEET - Kid is 22 and seriously unemployed

[Petcha]

The enormous difference now is the cost of housing. Fending for yourself on low wages is far harder than it was when I was 22 (when I had a two bed council flat to myself in Manchester, and then a housing co-op place in dirt cheap short life housing in Hackney). It's a different world and 'tough love' could have far worse consequences.

Plus to be honest if my parents had tried 'tough love' I'd have probably never spoken to them again.

I've spent 30 years learning to forgive them. And now we get on and they have contact with my son which I swore I would never let happen. Life's too fucking short for continued hatred. I've never received any sort of apology though.

I would never do what they did. But they're human. I hope the OP sorts their 'kid' out though. I think at 22 he should be living independently. So yes, at that age a bit if tough love might be required.

 

[lazythursday]

I've spent 30 years learning to forgive them. And now we get on and they have contact with my son which I swore I would never let happen. Life's too fucking short for continued hatred. I've never received any sort of apology though.

I would never do what they did. But they're human. I hope the OP sorts their 'kid' out though. I think at 22 he should be living independently. So yes, at that age a bit if tough love might be required.

51% of 22 year old men live with their parents - no longer easy to live independently, sadly.

Of course he should be doing more to move on with his life but I think tough love is rarely the best solution.

 

[ice-is-forming]

This whole kids should be living independently from their parents at this age, it's really not based on anything other than the institution of nuclear family - it doesn't exist in other cultures. People can still be independent and live with family.

Who does the nuclear family serve?

It's not about where you live it's how you live isn't it?

And that's even before you take the cost of living into it - and treating this situation as if this lad has power over the society he lives in. Blaming him for the things that are now almost impossible to achieve for many adults who have been independent for years and struggling with now.

Tough love - jeez! really. He's not a 'man' untill he leaves home? Get a grip.

I don't know him but he just sounds indecisive and maybe he lacks capacity to make these decisions and act on them yet. He's only 22 ffs. Newme hasn't described a freeloader, he's described good lad who is struggling to find a direction in a future that is much more complex than we dealt with.

I think this is more about newmes frustration and that's okay - the lad will find his way when he's ready. But it's obvious that although his dad's thought and acted on many approaches over the last 5 years, none have been the right one, maybe it's the timing, maybe there's more at play here.. but at 22 it's imo a non problem.

 

[Idris2002]

If everyone else is throwing in their two cents, I'll throw in mine: it's now or never. Sitting at home with Mammy and having no job, no outside interests (and no girlfriend/boyfriend, right?) will only damage him in the end. And the longer it goes on, the more damaged he'll be. If you don't do it now, then one day you'll wake up and poof twenty years have gone by, and the hermit in the front room won't be able to engage with the rest of the world even if he wants to.

 

[Elpenor]

If everyone else is throwing in their two cents, I'll throw in mine: it's now or never. Sitting at home with Mammy and having no job, no outside interests (and no girlfriend/boyfriend, right?) will only damage him in the end. And the longer it goes on, the more damaged he'll be. If you don't do it now, then one day you'll wake up and poof twenty years have gone by, and the hermit in the front room won't be able to engage with the rest of the world even if he wants to.

Like a hikikomori

 

[Idris2002]

Like a hikikomori

Exactly like that.

 

[pbsmooth]

It’s not about moving out because the costs are crazy and he can build up to that. But it’s about living life, meeting new people, and that requires earning a bit of money. And when you’re young your working life can be a social thing too not to mention ideally something you’re interested in. Aspiring to be on benefits and sitting around playing video games isn’t great.

 

[newme]

How does he feel about not reaching the milestones you're expecting of him.

Does he care.
Does he feels shame
Guilt
Have you considered that your goals aren't his goals.
Does he need support to figure out his own goals
What's his disability
He's only 20
If you've been on his back for 5 years and it's not going in the direction you want.. then I think maybe you need to look at your expectations as well as do some exploring of his world views and beliefs.

Sometimes it's not just about the thing someone is doing, it's the purpose, place, timing or value etc . attached to that thing. so maybe he can walk 5 miles to see friends, but can't stand up at work( for example) so it's not about the standing is it...

If he wanted what you wanted I'm sure if he had capacity he'd be achieving it by now. But he's not is he, but still... if you take out all the things he can't do, you're still left with a load of really lovely qualities and strengths.. maybe focus on supporting him to do more of those things, rather than focus on doing less of the things you don't agree with .

There's a good employment model called customised employment, it may be worth you learning about it.

Just some thoughts anyway you talk about him as if he's broken and needs fixing some way.

Bundling some answers together here so not all directly linked to your reply but that's where I started lol.

Didn't really give any of them goals or milestones, just supported whatever direction they take. My mum got forced to take a degree she did not want to by her father, she did not continue this idea so we got support around whatever we picked. She said she just wanted us to be happy, still does. Most of what I do with the kids is based off what she did as a single mum with us, which did not include being on our backs about stuff. It did include talking to us and offering help tho if we seemed interested in something, checking in through usual stuff etc. Clubs, education or otherwise choices but even being more off the public transport system than we are now, we both got motorbikes so could get to college/jobs, they all have the same offer which is standing and that was that, money is sat there anyway it just has a specific purpose, not like we go on about it. Btw he is 22, his sister is 20 who I know I have been on about a lot lately lol.

He does not have a disability by any legal or medical reason really and any claim is not going to pass, looked into this before and he hits none of the issues listed, he tore his ACL and its now not a good idea for him to play football but he was cleared otherwise to go back to work years ago and did, like you said its not about the standing. Also has Primary Raynaud Phenomenon, tho this was limited to the occasional skin discolouration and he only found out as we encouraged him to see the GP. Got hand warmer things, meds, seems to be fine. Has no problem doing any of the list of things they consider for a PIP claim. I think it may have been a passing mention when his raynauds got diagnosed but I checked in case. I haven't gone and said no you aren't disabled go do something. Just got myself informed.

If you have something in mind about how his many positive things do add up into anything to suggest he do I am all ears, not sarcasm I literally am asking cos I am encouraging everything he mentions and getting nowhere. I probably sound a lot more dramatic here cos I'm not talking to him I'm just saying what's happened over 5 years since he left education squashed into some typing, this isn't some ongoing daily discussion in the house, we are not panicking nor asking him about jobs constantly or whatever. I'm not working either but it does mean I see jobs he could do on occasion and ping them over.

It is me polling some people I have been around online for a long time for ideas in what I think is a fairly balanced community, especially compared to anywhere else.

He doesn't seem happy tho, not unhappy but just idk existing? When he was out working and seeing other people, he seemed happier. Not going anywhere he isn't meeting anyone, it seems to make him happy when he does and a job is a consistent way of doing this plus he liked having more money to spend on stuff and then ended up going out more to places with people and seemed happier from that. Like isn't that the point? Shouldn't I be trying to ensure he is in some position to support himself and be happy?

Especially if so rarely, having a job actually seems to positively affect his mood plus he's going to need something eventually and some schemes are age based.

He initially was very interested in building PC's and similar, as was I at the same age, I had built both of them their first PC's from basically spare parts and SO customised the cases as she's the arty one, she can build a PC but I can't do art lol. He tried that at College and just started skipping classes and got booted.
He definitely needs some kind of support to figure out his own goals, this was literally what I was trying to help with. When the job centre place him somewhere he's been fine, he knows he can get help with applications if he wants. I'm assuming he is applying, not like I'm nosing about in his work record or whatever it is but UC comes in so must be.

Of course we're not booting him out, he's not 'broken' and where I'm trying to get help relating to being NEET lack of employment and training is going to be what's mentioned most. He's kind, capable and intelligent among other things but it wasn't a I love my son thread, I assumed that was a given. Will mention the schemes people have said about. I don't care what he does but this doesn't seem to be making him happy. I do care about that. Where he worked he made friends and that did make him happy. His best mate moved like 100 miles away to basically where I went clubbing, bigger gay scene there apparently, they tried an online business together, supported that. Worked til it didn't.

No relationship currently, had two in the last few with some trans people (sorry if better term we just got told trans and latest was she when we checked pronouns). He knows my step relative is nb now having got there over years from afab, gay, bi, trans with a name change and now nb. Can be a journey. We were openly furious with my step dad for his negative reaction to this and he knows we are on the same page about this. Daughter and my SO are bi and his cousin is gay so I don't think he's worried about any reaction to that. Especially since he told us he was seeing them without asking anyway. He also seemed happier in those relationships.

Will look at customised employment and mention it to him. Never heard of it before.

 

[existentialist]

Something to bear in mind...

I'm usually very sceptical of "these days" pronouncements - the idea that we're all going to hell in a handbasket, and that our circumstances today are unprecedented, teenagers are worse than ever, etc., etc.

But that scepticism has been jolted, particularly around the question of young people, by what I have seen during/since Covid, and I think it bears thinking about.

The deprivation of social contact, and some sort of stable normality, through the two years of the peak of that pandemic has had a profound effect on the development of many young people. I have seen a marked spike in referrals of young people with various difficulties related to social interaction, self-esteem, and so on. I really do think that, for those who are now in the 16-22 bracket (and probably somewhat wider than that), Covid has had a very significant effect on them. This manifests in all kinds of different ways, and it's undeniable that, for some people, the isolation and other effects of Covid were something of a blessing (for a lot of neurodiverse young people, being spared the experience of a very ND-unfriendly school environment, for example).

But there are definitely aspects of (on the whole) mild trauma around the whole thing, and it is worth keeping that in mind. At the very least, the social development of some young people has been set back by a few years, at a critical stage in their lives for that development. At a point when most adolescents are looking to the world for continuity, stability, and certainty (admittedly, it has to be said, so they can rail and rebel against it), they found exactly the opposite, and it's going to take quite a few years for that "injury" to heal.

I think it probably isn't unreasonable to add into the mix something about the state of the world. Even if many young people will lack much interest or insight into global goings-on, they'll be reading the room when it comes to the behaviours of the adults around them, so that sense of dislocation, jeopardy, and uncertainty will be part of their lived experience, even now.

I see kids and young adults with a range of symptoms, from social anxiety, agoraphobia, and depression which certainly in some cases appear to be linked to their experiences during Covid. I probably don't see the ones who thrived, or whose resulting behaviours do not tend to lend themselves well to counselling referrals.

Some of what you're describing in the behaviour of your son, newme, could fit some of what I've described above. That's not a diagnosis - but it might be something that could help explain why things are going as they are.

 

[girasol]

Went through something similar with my son. We spent ages going through all the possible paths and he always found some excuse not to do it. I lost my shit one day and said he had to do something, ANYTHING!!!! So he joined an agency, he worked as a pizza delivery driver on a scooter (fuck I hated him doing that, but he used to come home with lots of £1 tips and he liked it for a while), he worked as a gardener, a labourer. His absolute NOs were office/computing jobs (despite all the IT people in the family), NO to getting a degree. But there has to be a YES somewhere, otherwise you go nowhere in life. Once he started working, there was no looking back.

I did ask him to move out of the house in Jan 2020 but that wasn't related to his working situation, it was due to ongoing unacceptable behaviour and I wasn't going to put up with that anymore (He was 21 at that point). I did give him money to rent a room + deposit but he ended going to stay his dad up north, and then pandemic hit. So he was locked up there for a while. I think that's when his attitude started to change, for the better. Once lockdown was done he came back to London with a new determination on how to behave and live his life. I think the time with his dad was also some kind of eye opener.

There's plenty of jobs out there, most of them are hard, don't pay well though. Anyway, he ate shit for a while but ended up in a good job - he was temping as a labourer for a while, one of the jobs took him on permanently and he's now assistant site manager with a company car at the age of 25 (the one thing I did was pay for him to have driving lessons while he figured out what to do), and he moved out at the age of 21 (a few months after he came back) when he was earning enough and had two friends to do a flat share with. Sadly he lives an hour outside of London, as this is what he can afford, but he's happy with that and he's now fully independent, living in a 1-bed flat (he hated sharing).

What I found was that whatever I suggested was mostly shutdown, but once I left it up to him to do WHATEVER - but do something, he came up with the solutions himself. Having a driving license made a big difference. I'm glad I did that, it's a good skill to have these days - if all else fails, there's jobs doing deliveries. That was one thing he didn't say no to, because, like so many young people, he was keen to learn how to drive.

 

[girasol]

This has been all over the news this week, and a lot of demonising of young people in the right wing press for not working - so this breakdown of who's not working is relevant.

Unemployment: Who are the millions of Britons not working?

The unemployment rate is relatively low historically, but millions aren't working.

www.bbc.co.uk