police raid/shut down brixton club.

[detective-boy]

*I could be wrong about this but in my limited expereince of going to gay clubs with friends who take drugs this was my impression

You would be. But, hey, lets not worry about any intelligence gathering and analysis. Let's just base things on a little bit of persoanl experience...

Not very far behind EVERY dealer (and usually right next to EVERY dealer) stands one of your category 2 people.

 

[detective-boy]

Can you imagine what the overtime bill for 200 police, for 11 arrests.

They were on overtime were they. You got a source for that information?

 

[detective-boy]

Are you going to give up your car?

If society decided to make owning a car illegal then I would make a choice as to whether or not to comply with the law. And if I chose not to, I would not complain when the law was enforced against me.

 

[detective-boy]

Just another fine example of the continuing failure of the Police force to serve anything remotely resembling the public interest.

I think you'll find you have used the words "the public" when you meant "my" in that statement.

So John Roberts and those who's views he undoubtedly does represent when he calls for police action aren't "the public" then? Their views count for less than yours do they? The police can ignore their requests for the law to be enforced with impunity then can they?

Fucking grow up.

 

[agricola]

Probably not, the current Lambeth senior management are far more orthodox. I think it would probably have their support (and they may well have decided to climb on board the publicity as it is consistent with their current general approach to drugs in the Borough)

Not only did it have their support but the Chief Superintendent was on the raid together with several members of the Borough SMT.

 

[Combustible]

Ok, I'm sure there is some dodgyness higher up the supply chain, but it's caused by the drugs illegality, not the drugs themselves.

And it's not the police's fault that its illegal. As long as it's illegal you can't expect the police not try to stop something which you've admitted is not harmless.

 

[detective-boy]

And it's not the police's fault that its illegal. As long as it's illegal you can't expect the police not try to stop something which you've admitted is not harmless.

* Notes apparently reasonable position *

* Looks at post count *

* Realises that poster doesn't know that for some posters EVERYTHING is the police's fault ... *

* Goes to slag off a passing PC 'cos it's not sunny on a Bank Holiday weekend *

 

[liquidlunch]

Can i just ask why would you wait and raid a club[gay or straght] with 200 coppers if you already know who the targets are.Why would you not bust them at their digs where they probably hide the stuff with 10 cops and a sniffer dog.P.R.bullshit i would say.Get them off the streets before they get to the clubs.I have never seen anyone getting their arm twisted behind their back to snort or smoke or swallow anything they didn't want to

 

[detective-boy]

Can i just ask why would you wait and raid a club[gay or straght] with 200 coppers if you already know who the targets are.

1. There may be evidential reasons (despite your confident prediction, most dealers do not keep large quatities at home and, if they do, it is not as easy to find as you suggest).
2. It will help provide reliable evidence of what they were going to do with it (which would not necessarily be the case with drugs found at home)
3. The problem may include the club management (either actively or passively) and, hence, you need to directly connect the activity with the venue

I suspect that (3) is the most likely reason for this operation being conducted in this way (and with this degree of publicity encouraged).

 

[liquidlunch]

1. There may be evidential reasons (despite your confident prediction, most dealers do not keep large quatities at home and, if they do, it is not as easy to find as you suggest).
2. It will help provide reliable evidence of what they were going to do with it (which would not necessarily be the case with drugs found at home)
3. The problem may include the club management (either actively or passively) and, hence, you need to directly connect the activity with the venue

I suspect that (3) is the most likely reason for this operation being conducted in this way (and with this degree of publicity encouraged).

Yep,fair enough,they do it a bit differently out here.They can turn you over on suspicion or use undercover people to pinpoint the who's who.But they dont raid clubs en mass,preferring to raid the suppliers rather than the users

 

[jæd]

3. The problem may include the club management (either actively or passively) and, hence, you need to directly connect the activity with the venue

This is probably the most likely reason... BUT perhaps a less heavy handed operation... Anyone seen V for Vendatta yet where they start tking away the horrible "suversive" queers...? The reputation of the police has just gone down a nother notch (or several notches) with quuer men and women...

 

[Greebozz]

Excellent.

Which one are you, Kevin or Perry ?

What are you on about? What is wrong with dancing like a bell end all night to crap music while on uppers, what is the big deal. As someone said, no one robs for a hand full of cheap pills and base.

All of them in that club are harming me zero. It does not even compare to some scrote breaking my car window it nick my car stereo.

 

[2 Hardcore]

When ever I've been to the Fridge I've had more hassle from the dealers outside the club + and the assortd beggards than any hassle indoors.

That's been my experience too.

 

[Louloubelle]

You would be. But, hey, lets not worry about any intelligence gathering and analysis. Let's just base things on a little bit of persoanl experience...

Not very far behind EVERY dealer (and usually right next to EVERY dealer) stands one of your category 2 people.

Well actually I don't want to talk too much about my personal experiences here but I used to go clubbing a lot and I don't think your assessment of the situation is completely accurate

Let me put this another way

while I think it's true that most people involved in big time drug dealing usually get involved with very dodgy people sooner or later I don't believe that all people who are drug dealers are scary gangsters who carry guns. Nor do I believe that all of them have contact with people who are. It's my impresion that many people just drift into dug dealing, often as a way to impress women, (or men).

I used to know a small group of emcees and djs who played on pirate radio stations, they were just kids really, in their late teens. Anyway, after a while, and through a shared love of music, I got to know these kids quite well and learned that 2 of them had been to prison for selling ecstasy (IMMIC they each had 200 pills on them and did 18 months of their 2 year sentences).

They were just kids who enjoyed talking drugs, realised that they could make money to pursure their enjoyment of drugs and interest in music by selling drugs (ecstasy) to their friends and they were unlucky anbd got caught.

Prison hadn't rehabilitated them, hadn't taught them anything, they were still taking drugs, all prison had done was traumatise them. I'm sure that as soon as they went to prison that some other kid turned up to sell people pills.

They weren't gansters or drug barons and nothing of any usefulness had come out of them being sent to prison, not that I could see anyway.

Also through my gay friends I've seen their friends doing insane quantities of drugs and seen the friendly, professional relationships they have with their dealers, many of whom offer a convenient delivery service. Some of their friends are doctors, lawyers, even cops, and they all seem like reasonably benevolent people.

They're not going to mug anyone to buy pills, they work hard and play hard. I nag them relentlessly about their use of drugs as I worry about them but I don't see how it's going to be in anyone's interest to arrest any of these people or their dealers.

As soon as this story broke I started worrying in case any of my friends had been arrested.

The thing is, when I tell them about my worried about their drug use I'll tell them stuff like that lots of dealers have dodgy connections even of they seem fluffy, but really the truth is that some do and some don't and they know it because they know the dealers much better than I do.

You say the police have intelligence about drug dealing, fair enough, I'll look forward to what happens with this and to see just how many gun toting gansters are arrested as a result of this raid. I've got a feeling that it isn't going to be many.

 

[detective-boy]

The reputation of the police has just gone down a nother notch (or several notches) with quuer men and women...

I don't know about anyone else ... but I wouldn't have chose this venue and this night for an "anti-gay" operation. There's far, far gayer places!

 

[detective-boy]

All of them in that club are harming me zero. It does not even compare to some scrote breaking my car window it nick my car stereo.

... to sell ... to get money (about £10 if they are lucky) ... usually to spend on ... er ... drugs.

Do you really think that car stereos are stolen by (a) people who haven't got car stereo or (b) organised criminal gangs of car stereo resellers ...

 

[Balbi]

Papers trumpet massive drugs raid, meanwhile in another part of London, Tribe of Munt happens

It's amazing.

 

[detective-boy]

Well actually I don't want to talk too much about my personal experiences here but I used to go clubbing a lot and I don't think your assessment of the situation is completely accurate

I'll tell that to the nice, fluffy dealer who got killed by their own suppliers because they thought (wrongly) that they had grassed them up then shall I?

Or the dead one, who was murdered by thugs wanting the money the sweet little rich kid was making.

Or the dozens of others who, one way or another, have pissed off the bad guys one or two steps behind them in the chain.

You are on a different planet if you cannot see that the violence and thuggery starts only a very short way behind the sort of pink and fluffy dealers you describe.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I'll tell that to the nice, fluffy dealer who got killed by their own suppliers because they thought (wrongly) that they had grassed them up then shall I?

Or the dead one, who was murdered by thugs wanting the money the sweet little rich kid was making.

Or the dozens of others who, one way or another, have pissed off the bad guys one or two steps behind them in the chain.

You are on a different planet if you cannot see that the violence and thuggery starts only a very short way behind the sort of pink and fluffy dealers you describe.

And you're on another planet (and I think you aren't, to be honest) if you think doing this will affect any of that in the slightest way.

 

[Balbi]

To be fair detective_boy, there is that unavoidable side of illegal activity. If you associate with criminals, you may be surprised to find that their breaking of the law extends not just to the chemical codes but into violence. However, you've also got to understand that it's not the same all over and there are 'well fluffy' dealers and people behind them. It's not all Resevoir Dogs, but it ain't all Care Bears either.

Personally, I cannot find a dealer for love nor money

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Personally, I cannot find a dealer for love nor money

I can't find a dealer for love.

 

[Balbi]

I can't find a dealer for love.

The prices for love these days. Laugh? I nearly bought a ferret.

 

[Louloubelle]

I'll tell that to the nice, fluffy dealer who got killed by their own suppliers because they thought (wrongly) that they had grassed them up then shall I?

Or the dead one, who was murdered by thugs wanting the money the sweet little rich kid was making.

Or the dozens of others who, one way or another, have pissed off the bad guys one or two steps behind them in the chain.

You are on a different planet if you cannot see that the violence and thuggery starts only a very short way behind the sort of pink and fluffy dealers you describe.

Look, you're using the same arguments that I've used with the kids I used to know and it's not that I think this argument is without validity, far from it, it's just that not every drug dealer is in the same situation and you have to accept that, just as you have to accept that drug dealing is potentially danerous.

Even if they are in this dangerous situation, and I agree that many people get in over their heads when they drift into dealing, raiding a club and arresting the small fry who deal there will, by your own admission, only put them at risk of being hurt or possibly killed by the more dangerous people higher up the chain. How is that going to help anything?

 

[jæd]

I'll tell that to the nice, fluffy dealer who got killed by their own suppliers because they thought (wrongly) that they had grassed them up then shall I?

Or the dead one, who was murdered by thugs wanting the money the sweet little rich kid was making.

Or the dozens of others who, one way or another, have pissed off the bad guys one or two steps behind them in the chain.

You are on a different planet if you cannot see that the violence and thuggery starts only a very short way behind the sort of pink and fluffy dealers you describe.

Um... Your experience of dealing only appears to be through being a cop... Gosh... I wonder why its so negative...?

But if you want to get the criminals out of drug dealing then legalise. Then you'll just have corporate thuggery and hippy leftie liberals boycotting drugs because its "feeding them man, dude..."

 

[Louloubelle]

Um... Your experience of dealing only appears to be through being a cop... Gosh... I wonder why its so negative...?

hang around on the London club scence for long enough and you'll sooner or later meet some cops whose perception of drug dealers isn't quite so negative (allegedly)

But if you want to get the criminals out of drug dealing then legalise. Then you'll just have corporate thuggery and hippy leftie liberals boycotting drugs because its "feeding them man, dude..."

I think, to give him his due, he's got a point when he says that the police have to enforce the law and if we don't like it we should get more involved in the political process.

 

[Louloubelle]

I saw the coverage on ITV news of this raid and it's obvious that this was a major PR event

It's ironic that LA Confidential is on TV later tonight as there are elements of the film that resonate with this raid.

There's another thing I'm intrigued by, which is that the ITN reporter said that the Fridge had recently been bought by new owners and that its license would now be under review.

I haven't been clubbing for ages but years ago, when I went to the fridge (I went several times as friends were DJing there and I was on teh guest list) I was astonished by the blatant drug taking there. It could have only been more blatant if the dealers had set up big stalls with flashing lights saying "buy your drugs here"

It also seemed to me that the crowd was predominantly friendly and not remotely moody so I just assumed that the cops were leaving it well alone as there was no trouble there and they had better things to do

I'd be interested to hear from anyone whos been there in the last 5 years or so to hear whet it's been like since then, but I'm puzzled as to why a club should (unless it's changed dramatically over the last 5 years) act as a major hedonistic centre for people taking tons of drugs but then only get raided soon after the ownership of the club changes. That is somehting that interests me. a lot.

 

[jæd]

Also through my gay friends I've seen their friends doing insane quantities of drugs and seen the friendly, professional relationships they have with their dealers, many of whom offer a convenient delivery service. Some of their friends are doctors, lawyers, even cops, and they all seem like reasonably benevolent people.

My experience is that on the gay scene most of the "dealers" are just mates of mates. Shadowy, gun-toting Mr Bigs aren't that common.

 

[Louloubelle]

My experience is that on the gay scene most of the "dealers" are just mates of mates. Shadowy, gun-toting Mr Bigs aren't that common.

That has been my experience too, however I don't really like it that my friends take coke so I tend not to look too much and know what's going on as I don't want to be involved in it.

My friends tell me pretty much what you've just said though, although I also think they are affluent, good looking, kind, happy people with an enviable lifestyle and I sometimes think that if something unpleasant was going on they either wouldn't notice or would just smile and move on to the next dealer / party (IYKWIM). Nothing bad happens in their privelidged world and i worry that they'll get a rude awakening if they end up on the wrong end of a sniffer dog one day and everything will all fall down.

 

[jæd]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone whos been there in the last 5 years or so to hear whet it's been like since then, but I'm puzzled as to why a club should (unless it's changed dramatically over the last 5 years) act as a major hedonistic centre for people taking tons of drugs but then only get raided soon after the ownership of the club changes. That is somehting that interests me. a lot.

I went there about three years ago... And then they started doiing "Last Ever Fridge" nights every two months so they alienated the gay crowd. Have been there for other nights and while its a great venue, shame about the location.

Apart from special events none of my mates have been there for the last two years. I was quite suprised that there was something on there last night...!

Never saw it as rempant drugtaking place. Kind of just average in my opinion...

 

[jæd]

I'm guessing that tomorrows headlines will be "GAY CLUB DRUGS BUST". Gonna be like the "GAY CRYSTAL METH EPIDEMIC".