police raid/shut down brixton club.

[gentlegreen]

on a lighter note - hard house - don't do it kids

Yep - one of those genres you need class A's to enjoy

.

 

[lunatrick]

I, too, think that police resources could've been better used and I'm guessing this was a big media ploy tbh..

But I don't necessarily agree with your statement. I think that there are knock on effects from dealing coke and pills - especially at the higher end of the scale - which do affect the community. It can seem harmless to us buying some pill off some bloke in a club but at some point up the ladder people are affected adversely..

I'm not anti - far from it - but like you say if you think that dealing large quantities of class a's don't have a negative effect - that's naive. In columbia thousands of people die in drug related gang crime, and then onto the criminal gangs in europe and the uk who if you climb high up into that world you need to be armed and willing to use it to protect yourself / and your money / drugs. fact.

 

[oddworld]

Dealing coke and pills in a club does not cause any misery to the community.

Not until we leave anyway

 

[detective-boy]

The last three could have been accomplished by not raiding the club, couldn't they.

And as for the other two, as is being repeatedly pointed out, that's a massive use of resources to nick a few minor dealers (and apparently warning people for possession of two pills.)

So your argument is for the legalisation of controlled drugs. Fine. I agree that is the only sensible long-term course.

But whilst it remains illegal please explain to me how the police can be expected to never enforce the law? Because unless you do, this sort of operation WILL continue to happen somewhere.

 

[Louloubelle]

So fucking find out.
Read the fucking paper, they're in it all the time.
And you should know, because it is THEM who are representing you and telling the police what to do on your behalf.

This failure to identify what the police can and cannot do is at the heart of half the fucking whinges people have. Shouting at them to change the law is about as fucking helpful as shouting at them to change the weather.

so can you let me know who would have taken the decision to raid this nightclub for drugs?

I would have thought that, in these days of the potential for terrorist attacks and with the police themselves suggesting that gay clubs could be at high risk of terrorist attack, that the police would have have more urgent priorities when it comes to gay and gay friendly clubbing events.

 

[Louloubelle]

So your argument is for the legalisation of controlled drugs. Fine. I agree that is the only sensible long-term course.

But whilst it remains illegal please explain to me how the police can be expected to never enforce the law? Because unless you do, this sort of operation WILL continue to happen somewhere.

I don't expect the police to never enforce the law, just to prioritise their acitivities based on protecting all members of the community from harm

 

[detective-boy]

You must know that most clubs in London are full of people taking drugs.

I've been to gay clubs with my friends and there were insane amounts of drugs being consumed, however, it seemed obvious to me that the use of drugs was contained to those within the clubs and that the people inside were causing no problems for the people outside the club whatsoever.

The police full well know that (they even have some gay officers now you know!).

And raids on this scale (or on any scale to be honest) are rare. They usually now only take place where the management have failed to co-operate in other ways of keeping the issue under control.

That said, government (i.e. your representatives) KEEP adding new laws addressing the use of drugs in licensed premises. It is now far more likely that a pub or club will lose it's licence due to drug use than it was five years ago.

There is a growing gulf between the club-going community and the legislature. The police are caught in the middle and, to some extent, find their own views moing towards those of the clubbers and away from the reactionary approach of government.

 

[boskysquelch]

one man's greed, is another man's profit...if you think that drug monies of any kind end up in the pocket of some Mr Nice you are a lucky person.

I don't afford that knowledge.

and "insane" amount of drugs leads to insanity in the community..listen to Jim Morrison ffs!..."..no one gets out of here alive."


When dance_rave_etc all started everyone involved knew It was fucked...that's the whole point...it's not about progress...it's about doing what you want to do now.... not tomorrow ...because chances are you will probably be getting fucked by something or other...see the World...only a plane trip away?

Clubs are evil evil evil...

So and so from Harrow knows you are a bunch of twats for being greedy....why shouldn't he have your money if you want to spend it?

The council knows your greed and put more investment into your greed than you expect them to do in your community...more money to be made in Licences and meetings than clearing out old cars or housing homeless crackheads...you get my drift?

The club owners_investors aren't ethically minded_social doyens...they are leeches that suck the blood of Life and live off your greed. Young and Old. Gay or Straight. Whaddevva or whaddeva.

You feed off them, they feed off you.



But y'all enjoy yerselves now.

 

[detective-boy]

I don't expect the police to never enforce the law, just to prioritise their acitivities based on protecting all members of the community from harm

Prioritisation already tries to do that. If you added up all the use of police resources you would find that it is a tiny (if very obvious) proportion which is focused on issues such as drug dealing in clubs.

If you do not want any enforcement, have all laws which do not directly impact other issue of "harm" repealed.

 

[detective-boy]

Dealing coke and pills in a club does not cause any misery to the community.

No mate, course it doesn't.

'Cos there are no dangerous, violent individuals further up the chain are there. It's just a nice little cottage industry, with your trusted, cuddly local club dealer (a respected part of the local community who is nice to children and sponsors the local kids football team) simply providing a convenient local supply of home grown, organic drugs ...

Try thinking about it again, eh?

 

[London_Calling]

Dealing coke and pills in a club does not cause any misery to the community.

Because no muggings, burglaries, or violent deaths are related to it, either ?

It's a utopian indulgence !

 

[detective-boy]

so can you let me know who would have taken the decision to raid this nightclub for drugs?

I would have thought that, in these days of the potential for terrorist attacks and with the police themselves suggesting that gay clubs could be at high risk of terrorist attack, that the police would have have more urgent priorities when it comes to gay and gay friendly clubbing events.

It appears that the operation was run by the central Clubs and Vice Unit, CO14. They would normally only take on a large-scale investigation from a venue point of view but if another unit (e.g. a drug or crime squad) identified the dealers and found they were operating primarily in the club then they may have started the operation from there. From the venue management point of view they do a limited amount of direct supervision (routine visits) themselves but usually I would have expected a local division to have referred the matter to them as the management were not co-operating and it had got beyond the scope of the local police to deal with).

And I think you may be slightly over-estimating the threat to gay clubs from terrorists - so far as I am aware there is nothing specific, simply a bit of thought about the types of venue which Al-Quaeda inspired terrorists may attack which led to the creation of a list of western decadence type possible targets.

 

[Maggot]

Because no muggings, burglaries, or violent deaths are related to it, either ?

It's a utopian indulgence !

That's right, it's the crack and smack addicts who cause all that. Do you seriously believe that people mug and burgle people so they can buy a pill (max cost £5) in a club?

 

[ddraig]

what could have been more effective (and make a good pic!)
is for 200 coppers to be spread out every 10yds around all the streets where blatant crack dealing goes on. or loads around iceland like the rts demo

 

[laptop]

It appears that the operation was run by the central Clubs and Vice Unit, CO14.

What're the odds that this was a message aimed at the Lambeth command as much as anyone else? Post-Brian, y'know...

 

[Louloubelle]

The first few times I went clubbing in London I felt really tense because of all the blatant drug taking going on and I expected the police to come charging in through the door at any moment.

Given just how widespread drug use in clubs is and that you can't arrest them all, I would expect / hope that the cops make a decision to raid clubs based on an assessment of how dangerous the dealers are.

For example, a friend of mine was working on the door of a club a few years back and one particular event seemed to always be trouble, crack being smoked on site, threating dodgy people causing trouble at the door, moody atmosphere. On the bright side these particular clubbers spent a fortune on champagne at the bar. Anyway, eventually one of my friend's colleagues had a gun put to his head by one of the hangers on of the promoter of this event. At that point the club owner said enough is enough and they stopped the promoter from hiring the club (from what I heard he wanted to stop them for a while but was too scared).

Now it seems to me that dealing in clubs falls into 2 main categories, 1. hedonists, fluffy, generally cause no trouble at all (I would classify most dealers at most gay clubs in this category*) and 2. gangstas and people with guns, serious hard core drug dealers who settle problems with violence

I understand that the fluffy hedonists might be less problematic and risky to deal with and make for a good photo opportunity but if I was a cop I'd be trying my best to arrest the people with guns.

I hope you're right about the risk from terrorists.

*I could be wrong about this but in my limited expereince of going to gay clubs with friends who take drugs this was my impression

 

[London_Calling]

That's right, it's the crack and smack addicts who cause all that. Do you seriously believe that people mug and burgle people so they can buy a pill (max cost £5) in a club?

I didn't realise the dealer arrested only dealt in this one club. And only to affluent law-abiding people.

Nor did I realise the dealer only sold "pills". I must be naive.

 

[Greebozz]

The police have definitely got egg on there faces. Can you imagine what the overtime bill for 200 police, for 11 arrests. I think that there will be some serious questions asked by local tax payers. I am not against the police, but they need to concentrate on areas where people are being harmed. violent crimes and mugging. drug gang violence and the harder drugs like crack and heroin.

The people in that club are not causing much harm to anyone else. One wonders if there is a sort of jealousy about people having a good time?

Basically the police ballsed up here in my opinion.

 

[Maggot]

No mate, course it doesn't.

'Cos there are no dangerous, violent individuals further up the chain are there. It's just a nice little cottage industry, with your trusted, cuddly local club dealer (a respected part of the local community who is nice to children and sponsors the local kids football team) simply providing a convenient local supply of home grown, organic drugs ...

Ok, I'm sure there is some dodgyness higher up the supply chain, but it's caused by the drugs illegality, not the drugs themselves.

The hidden costs behind the supply chain of drugs are far less than the ones behind the oil industry (wars, death squads, displacements etc). Are you going to give up your car?

 

[London_Calling]

The people in that club are not causing much harm to anyone else. One wonders if there is a sort of jealousy about people having a good time?

Excellent.

Which one are you, Kevin or Perry ?

 

[boskysquelch]

1. hedonists, fluffy, generally cause no trouble at all (I would classify most dealers at most gay clubs in this category*)

*I could be wrong about this but in my limited expereince of going to gay clubs with friends who take drugs this was my impression

Yep you are wrong in a big wrong way.

All dealers in controlled/liciensed envronments are doing it to make m o n e y.

 

[jæd]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4913328.stm


200 police? 200?? for a little nightclub in brixton?? methinks someone's having a laugh. 200 police for 11 arrests?? somehow that doesn't seem quite right to me.

So... They've arrested mostly middleclass club-goers, some of which for dealing. ("Got any extra pills, mate...?" "Ta"), mostly for wanting to have a good time.

And the big king-pin dealers. Gonna be safe at home in their houses waking up this morning. The only people who deal in clubs are small-fry and idiots... And they won't be much use to police...

So... A nice little pr distaster for the cops, costing how much money, and still there are crack squirrels on the loose. When ever I've been to the Fridge I've had more hassle from the dealers outside the club + and the assortd beggards than any hassle indoors.

Gay/Police links sre going to be driven bank years. The gay view of police is that they are there to stop you having fun...! Avoid where possible...!

 

[The Groke]

It wasn't a "police" statement. It was a fucking politician.

Patronising cock



I may have been technically "wrong" for whatever that is worth to you, but my light-hearted comment poking fun at the ludicrous statement stands, regardless of who said it.

I will also throw in my 2c worth in agreeing with the majority of others on this thread at what a misguided and pointless excercise the whole thing was for all involved.

Just another fine example of the continuing failure of the Police force to serve anything remotely resembling the public interest.

 

[boskysquelch]

The gay view of police is that they are there to stop you having fun...! Avoid where possible...!

It's also this hetero's view too.

 

[ddraig]

bet u get a bigger haul if u went with 4 or 5 plod and searched everyone in a 'style bar' in clapham, islington etc etc

 

[phildwyer]

So your argument is for the legalisation of controlled drugs. Fine. I agree that is the only sensible long-term course.

But whilst it remains illegal please explain to me how the police can be expected to never enforce the law? Because unless you do, this sort of operation WILL continue to happen somewhere.

Are the police forcefully *telling* the politicians that the current laws are unjust and counter-productive? For I suspect that many senior police officers are reluctant to bring much pressure to bear on politicians to change manifestly stupid laws. For obvious reasons.

 

[The Groke]

Bollocks. Your using huge letters like that makes it look like you considered the Groke to be an idiot for not knowing the difference.

Didn't it just!

I refer back to my previous statement:

"Patronising Cock"

I have no idea of the precise relationship between the Police and the Metropolitan Police Authority, I doubt many people do and I don't see a great deal of reason why they should, tbh.

Well I don't because I am clearly thick

It seems reasonable to assume they're fairly closely connected, especially as the tone of the statement is of someone who is part of the action. Note the phrase 'WE are tackling drug dealing.'

One would have thought so eh........

Ah well - lets hear for the boys in blue eh - fighting daily against their enforced slavery by evil masters whose every bidding they must blindly obey: The Metropolitan Police Authority - Mwahahahahahah!

 

[The Groke]

bet u get a bigger haul if u went with 4 or 5 plod and searched everyone in a 'style bar' in clapham, islington etc etc

you would probably get a bigger haul if you shook my keyboard upside down for a few seconds.......

 

[detective-boy]

what could have been more effective (and make a good pic!)
is for 200 coppers to be spread out every 10yds around all the streets where blatant crack dealing goes on. or loads around iceland like the rts demo

So if 200 coppers HAD been spread out every 10 yds round Brixton town centre, stopping and searching anyone they suspected to be engaged in drug dealing (as either a dealer or, in order to gain evidence against the dealers, who would otherwise deny what they had sold was drugs, the buyers) they would have been surrounded by cheering crowds, throwing flowers at them and welcoming the liberation, would they?

No of course they fucking wouldn't. Does that not sound a bit similar to "Operation Swamp" which was ... er ... twenty-five years ago this month and which led to ... er ... riots.

 

[detective-boy]

What're the odds that this was a message aimed at the Lambeth command as much as anyone else? Post-Brian, y'know...

Probably not, the current Lambeth senior management are far more orthodox. I think it would probably have their support (and they may well have decided to climb on board the publicity as it is consistent with their current general approach to drugs in the Borough)