Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

[existentialist]

As I've said before they are hoping to slip it under the radar when people are distracted by other things and the initial furore has died down but it also occurs to me that the fact that they've delayed it's progress could be because they actually feel very insecure - yes I know they have an 80 seat majority but to me it appears that this is a government of mediocrities. None of them are actually really up to the job at hand and they know it. All they really have is flag-shagging jingoism, that and the lining of theirs and their mate's pockets and it's all wearing a bit thin.

I'm not sure I want to credit them with such awareness, but it's possible that someone in government is realising that an 80 seat majority isn't enough to fend off lots of very angry people who don't feel like they are being represented.

Or may they're just scared of random spontaneous outbursts of violent thuggery for no reason other than a bunch of people felt like it. Hmmm...

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not sure I want to credit them with such awareness, but it's possible that someone in government is realising that an 80 seat majority isn't enough to fend off lots of very angry people who don't feel like they are being represented.

Or may they're just scared of random spontaneous outbursts of violent thuggery for no reason other than a bunch of people felt like it. Hmmm...

They've got covid which bar the vaccine has been a disaster for which they bear a great deal of responsibility

They've got brexit, which in its form is entirely their responsibility

They're utterly devoid of talent and as everyone knows empty vessels make the loudest noise

They should be shitshakingly scared

 

[teqniq]

I'm not sure I want to credit them with such awareness, but it's possible that someone in government is realising that an 80 seat majority isn't enough to fend off lots of very angry people who don't feel like they are being represented.

Or may they're just scared of random spontaneous outbursts of violent thuggery for no reason other than a bunch of people felt like it. Hmmm...

The insecurity which I think is quite possibly very real, is more likely to be collectively more of a subconscious thing, (haha if it is possible to actually have a collective subconscious) that is to to say it is there but it is mostly unspoken. Apologies, I should have been clearer.

 

[dessiato]

I keep seeing things like this and am increasingly saddened. The U.K. was never perfect, but it is less and less the country I grew up in, and was proud of.

 

[PR1Berske]

“I’m not in favour of even more restrictive measures. Surely after an historically unprecedented year-long curfew, in peacetime, the government could show some common sense and gratitude for such incredible forbearance to allow civil liberties to once again flourish. Or are they happy to be linked to the repressive regimes currently flexing their muscles via their police forces?

Source:

Protest laws move UK towards paramilitary policing, says former chief

Exclusive: Michael Barton, who led Durham force, says government should show common sense after pandemic

www.theguardian.com

 

[TopCat]

Are people thinking of going today?

 

[campanula]

I am making banners with my grand-daughter for this afternoon's protest. She is pretty nifty at this but we want a sharp slogan (as a change from Kill the Bill), which isn't too wordy and is easily read. She has dismissed my idea (No trust, No consent) so we are scratching our heads. Any Urban suggestions.

 

[TopCat]

I am making banners with my grand-daughter for this afternoon's protest. She is pretty nifty at this but we want a sharp slogan (as a change from Kill the Bill), which isn't too wordy and is easily read. She has dismissed my idea (No trust, No consent) so we are scratching our heads. Any Urban suggestions.

Burn the police (bill)!

 

[campanula]

Oddly, I suggested Kill the (old) bill...but using brackets was dismissed.

 

[campanula]

She's already made her own banner - Dogs Rule, Police are Cruel (she is 9).

 

[TopCat]

She's already made her own banner - Dogs Rule, Police are Cruel (she is 9).

Ah, nine. Let me re think.

 

[TopCat]

How about No to police bullies?

 

[Pickman's model]

Why can you batter a fish but it's illegal to batter a copper?

 

[TopCat]

Quite an enthusiastic and diverse crowd in London today.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

She's already made her own banner - Dogs Rule, Police are Cruel (she is 9).

That would be an absolute photographer-magnet.

 

[Border Reiver]

Source:

Protest laws move UK towards paramilitary policing, says former chief

Exclusive: Michael Barton, who led Durham force, says government should show common sense after pandemic

www.theguardian.com

I wish that the sub editors would go for accuracy. England and Wales, not UK!

 

[Pickman's model]

I wish that the sub editors would go for accuracy. England and Wales, not UK!

Think it through. What happens in England and Wales influences what happens in Scotland. It's disappointing to see so enthusiastic a thinker such as yourself falling on this basic hurdle

 

[Border Reiver]

Think it through. What happens in England and Wales influences what happens in Scotland. It's disappointing to see so enthusiastic a thinker such as yourself falling on this basic hurdle

Off ignore.

No. Scotland has a completely separate legal and penal system. We are in many ways moving in the opposite direction. With some diversions. The Daily Mail does not have any effect here.

 

[Pickman's model]

Off ignore.

No. Scotland has a completely separate legal and penal system. We are in many ways moving in the opposite direction. With some diversions. The Daily Mail does not have any effect here.

But not a completely separate policing system and it is the effect on policing we're talking about, not the legal system or the penal system. And anyone who remembers cops helicoptered to gleneagles in 2005, who remembers the paramilitary policing of the g8 in Edinburgh and Glasgow that year, who recalls the presence of English cops in Scotland at the time or Scottish cops in London in August 2011, will know that policing in this island is more connected than you say

 

[Pickman's model]

The Daily Mail does not have any effect here.

Yes it does.

 

[Border Reiver]

Yes it does.

It is a completely different version. Especially the front page. I can buy each edition living right on the border. When I first moved here and picked it up in Tesco's cafe I could not believe how much it diverted from the online edition. It may affect the minority Tory faction but it has little effect on government policy where we are quietly removing short sentences and closing traditional women's prisons. There is minimal outcry when liberal policies are suggested for the judicial and penal system. Not an ideal world but better in my view than a decade of Tory Daily Mail stupidity.

 

[Pickman's model]

It is a completely different version. Especially the front page. I can buy each edition living right on the border. When I first moved here and picked it up in Tesco's cafe I could not believe how much it diverted from the online edition. It may affect the minority Tory faction but it has little effect on government policy where we are quietly removing short sentences and closing traditional women's prisons. There is minimal outcry when liberal policies are suggested for the judicial and penal system. Not an ideal world but better in my view than a decade of Tory Daily Mail stupidity.

I see you've chosen to swivel 180 degrees and agree it has some influence on government policy in scotland

 

[Border Reiver]

But not a completely separate policing system and it is the effect on policing we're talking about, not the legal system or the penal system. And anyone who remembers cops helicoptered to gleneagles in 2005, who remembers the paramilitary policing of the g8 in Edinburgh and Glasgow that year, who recalls the presence of English cops in Scotland at the time or Scottish cops in London in August 2011, will know that policing in this island is more connected than you say

You are entitled to your opinion.

Police Scotland is controlled by Holyrood and not by the Home Office in London. No Priti Patel. PACE is not applicable. Most public order laws differ and are open to liberalisation (SNP Green is considerably more liberal than Johnson and Patel.)

Not perfect but better in many ways

 

[Border Reiver]

I see you've chosen to swivel 180 degrees and agree it has some influence on government policy in scotland

I see you do not understand nuance.

It affects some Backwood Tories but is little read and Conservatives have no chance of influencing government policy as they are a small minority.

 

[Border Reiver]

Yes it does.

Give examples of a successful Daily Mail campaign in a Scottish issue.

 

[Pickman's model]

You are entitled to your opinion.

Police Scotland is controlled by Holyrood and not by the Home Office in London. No Priti Patel. PACE is not applicable. Most public order laws differ and are open to liberalisation (SNP Green is considerably more liberal than Johnson and Patel.)

Not perfect but better in many ways

I have given you concrete examples of police cooperation across the island, I have pointed that paramilitarism could be discerned in Scottish policing at least as far back as 2005, and you come back with some weak but the organisation and the law are different. Do you honestly think policing in Scotland is insulated from policing in England?

 

[Pickman's model]

Give examples of a successful Daily Mail campaign in a Scottish issue.

I don't have to, you have backtracked and agreed with me

 

[Pickman's model]

I see you do not understand nuance.

It affects some Backwood Tories but is little read and Conservatives have no chance of influencing government policy as they are a small minority.

I'll tell you what, I understand little is more than zero

 

[Pickman's model]

I see you do not understand nuance.

It affects some Backwood Tories but is little read and Conservatives have no chance of influencing government policy as they are a small minority.

So in your opinion a newspaper selling about 70,000 copies a day (about 2/3s what that daily record sells and a mite more than the Sunday post) is little read. I suppose they're all being bought for litter trays

 

[Pickman's model]

I see you do not understand nuance.

It affects some Backwood Tories but is little read and Conservatives have no chance of influencing government policy as they are a small minority.

What you said before you shifted the goalposts was the DM has no effect in Scotland. You agree in this post and others it has some effect in Scotland. So stfu about the mail, which you introduced for your own no doubt sectarian reasons into this exchange.