Petition in favour of Brighton Terrace Drug Treatment centre

[pooka]

I went to the CPCG meeting last night (I got some filthy looks from Trinity Gardens people when I said I supported it and was a Brixton resident. Think I might avoid The Trinity for a while ).

Two councillors came out in favour of the centre and there was general support from the CPCG board. An ex drug user, NHS people and a vicar from Brixton hill also supported it (the vicar managed to get away with accusing them of being concerned about their house prices).

But there was very vocal oposition/heckaling from Brighton Terrace/Trinity residents. There arguments dont seem to stand up to me, but there is still the potentual for them to get their way by shouting loudest. They do seem totally unprepared for other Brxton residents to support the centre though.

The briefing material and also the presentation from Khadir Meer of the Drug and Alcohol Action team are available here

 

[Bob]

Up to 90 people now. It's really helpful for anyone who has signed to ask flatmates, friends etc. - from anywhere will do but obviously Brixton is best and Lambeth is good.

 

[Ol Nick]

I got some filthy looks from Trinity Gardens people when I said I supported it and was a Brixton resident.

You understand why don't you? It's because once again the white, middle-class, liberal intelligentsia has decided that it for the best interest of "the community" that something unpleasant be done to the mostly non-white, working-class council house tenants. In this case apparently 90 people, without having heard the debate from both sides, feel that it is a good idea to site a needle-exchange for chaotic drug users opposite a children's playground in an area that has been troubled by chaotic drugs use for well over 5 years.

What stinks most about the drugs centre process is the way the council, the health service and the police cooked up a fait accompli in return for which they offered nothing for the residents' obvious concerns. Every concession they have made has been wrung out of them by the opposition. That's why there's zero goodwill from local people towards the centre.

 

[Blagsta]

So all the people who support it are white and middle class? How do you work that one out?

 

[Ol Nick]

So all the people who support it are white and middle class? How do you work that one out?

Saw them at the planning meeting. All white. All apparently middle-class.

 

[Blagsta]

Errrrr...what about all the people who signed the petition? You think they're all white and middle class? 'cos I can tell you for nowt that you're way wrong on that one.

 

[Ol Nick]

Errrrr...what about all the people who signed the petition? You think they're all white and middle class? 'cos I can tell you for nowt that you're way wrong on that one.

I've never met those people. I am talking about the people who's project this is.

Anyway, I'm saying all this because this thread has a tendency to self-righteousness and it's worthwhile thinking a little more about the backgorund and the oppostion rather than, IMHO, arrogantly dismissing it.

 

[netbob]

You understand why don't you? It's because once again the white, middle-class, liberal intelligentsia has decided that it for the best interest of "the community" that something unpleasant be done to the mostly non-white, working-class council house tenants.

This is not a class, race or political issue, it's one of reality. There is an increasingly large problem in Brixton with hard drugs and a drug centre is needed to help remove demand and get people treated. Although as it happens (and not that it matters one bit), I think the person I was referring to would probably best fit your first description rather than your second.

I dont know why you stuck community in quotes like its a dirty word? The problems that centre is looking to address do affect many more people than just the immediate residents in BT - market traders loosing business, discarded needles (of which I found one in the alley behind my flat last week), users going untreated to name just a couple. I'd challenge you to come up with an alternative word?

In this case apparently 90 people, without having heard the debate from both sides, feel that it is a good idea to site a needle-exchange for chaotic drug users opposite a children's playground in an area that has been troubled by chaotic drugs use for well over 5 years.

This is the debate occurring. People don't just blindly signup to things. You might like to read this as many others have before they signed up.

Saw them at the planning meeting. All white. All apparently middle-class.

That may well have been the case at the planning meeting, but not now.
Most people (outside Trinity Gardens/Brighton Terrace) didnt know that the centre was likely to be turned down and so didnt have a chance to voice their support. That is what they are now doing.

EDIT: I'd strongly suggest you read Clive D's posts up ^ way too.

 

[Orang Utan]

I do think Nick has a point though - residents do feel like they have been railroaded into this by outsiders. It's certainly apparent from the minutes they've pushed through my door.

 

[happyshopper]

There still seems to be some confusion on the part of those supporting this petition about what this proposed centre is for.

The centre is not intended to deal with the problem of chaotic drug users in central Brixton. It's to provide a service for the whole of Lambeth for the minority of people with drug and alcohol problems who volunteer for treatment who cannot get it from a local GP. So it does not have to be right in the middle of Brixton - it could be sited anywhere in Lambeth with decent local transport links. In terms of the needs of service users, it would be better to have two or three smaller centres. So it seems perverse to choose a single location, particularly when it is right next to the most thriving drugs market in the borough.

 

[Bob]

There still seems to be some confusion on the part of those supporting this petition about what this proposed centre is for.

The centre is not intended to deal with the problem of chaotic drug users in central Brixton. It's to provide a service for the whole of Lambeth for the minority of people with drug and alcohol problems who volunteer for treatment who cannot get it from a local GP. So it does not have to be right in the middle of Brixton - it could be sited anywhere in Lambeth with decent local transport links. In terms of the needs of service users, it would be better to have two or three smaller centres. So it seems perverse to choose a single location, particularly when it is right next to the most thriving drugs market in the borough.

You're half right. It is the service for the people that can't get treatment elsewhere. But the largest concentration of problem drug users is in the central Lambeth area - and Brixton is clearly the place in the area that has the best transport links plus the largest number of users who will be local. What the centre will provide is an extra 150 treatment places in Lambeth on top of current capacity - something that is needed since only just over half the estimated people who need treatment in Lambeth are currently getting it.

And it isn't a single location - there are already a number of other locations doing this work, as you imply GPs are one group but there are plenty of others that will continue to do their work such as the Harbour crack project at Loughborough Junction.

And old Nick - the treatment centre is in one of the more white middle class streets in central Brixton - yes there are council blocks on it too - but it's not a particularly poor street. And you're wrong to say it's 'something nasty' - the Stockwell Project has had no problems with its neighbours - which is why the Stockwell Partnership is in favour of it. The Stockwell Project is also next to a children's playground with no problems.

I personally would be delighted to live next to the Brighton Terrace centre since I'd get a street warden during the centre's opening hours, and £50,000 of extra street lighting.

And Brighton Terrace is in Ferndale ward - which according to the census is about 70% white - my guess is that Brighton Terrace is probably roughly representative of Ferndale ward. Most of the rest of central Brixton is in Coldharbour ward which is about 35% white. So the idea this is somehow white people putting the centre in a black area is absurd.

Finally you're right to say that there hasn't been enough reassurance of the local residents - but this hasn't been helped by the local councillors who haven't been willing to try and persuade anyone. There has actually been a consultation process over 3 years by the South London & Maudesley NHS Trust (chaired by a Lewisham Labour councillor) and the police (falling under control of the Greater London Assembly) so there are plenty of ways to try and influence the process if you want. I've attached below a press release from the Ferndale councillors - it doesn't exactly smack of an open minded approach.

Drug Invasion Fears Quelled
September 2005

Local residents who feared a new drug treatment centre in the heart of their community would escalate drug-related anti-social behaviour, are rejoicing after Lambeth’s planning committee opposed the move.

The proposed drug treatment centre in residential Brighton Terrace, Brixton will now have to find another venue after strong pressure from local Labour councillors and Kate Hoey MP.

Whilst there is unanimous agreement on the need for a centre in Lambeth, local Labour councillors took up the fight on behalf of residents who felt that a residential area near to an already thriving drug market in Brixton just didn’t make sense. The proximity to a children’s play area was also of concern.

The planning committee rejected the application and will formally agree technical reasons for opposing the Brighton Terrace site at their next meeting in October. The search for a more suitable site can then begin.

Paul McGlone, Ferndale Labour Councillor said;

"This was the right centre in the wrong place and I am glad the committee have backed residents on this issue and listened to their grievances.

It is a shame that the NHS did not engage in proper consultation with residents to identify options for a site before making a decision. The Council and local NHS Trusts could have saved time and taxpayers money and have spared the residents this unnecessary scare. "

Incidentally Nick would you see any circumstances under which you'd support the centre?

 

[Orang Utan]

And old Nick - the treatment centre is in one of the more white middle class streets in central Brixton - yes there are council blocks on it too - but it's not a particularly poor street.

Well, actually, the only middle class whites who live in Trinity Gardens/Brighton Terrace are the ones who live in the posh Georgian terraces. The residents of Daisy Dormer Court, George Lashwood Court and Marie Lloyd Court are much more mixed - many of the families objecting to this is are black, not that it should be relevant

 

[Bob]

Well, actually, the only middle class whites who live in Trinity Gardens/Brighton Terrace are the ones who live in the posh Georgian terraces. The residents of Daisy Dormer Court, George Lashwood Court and Marie Lloyd Court are much more mixed - many of the families objecting to this is are black, not that it should be relevant

Fair enough - though as it happens the people I've known in those blocks have all been middle class (some white, some not) people renting in ex RTBs. Incidentally all the blocks have working gates and doors now - which is really good for Lambeth. There are whole estates in bits of Lambeth without working doors to blocks - where I used to live in Kennington there are about 70 blocks or so in that area alone without any working entryphones. A bit OT but Brixton generally seems to have far better security on estates than further north bits of Lambeth like Stockwell and Kennington.

 

[Orang Utan]

the people I've known in those blocks have all been middle class (some white, some not) people renting in ex RTBs.

 

[netbob]

I do think Nick has a point though - residents do feel like they have been railroaded into this by outsiders. It's certainly apparent from the minutes they've pushed through my door.

There does seem to be a more of an open debate going on now though with much more infomation in the public domain. Do you think that might make some people rexamine their feelings about it?

 

[Orang Utan]

Do you think that might make some people rexamine their feelings about it?

Possibly. Though to look at it cynically you might possibly deduce that people make up their minds about these things pretty early on and they are difficult to dissuade from their fixed ideas.

 

[Blagsta]

I've never met those people. I am talking about the people who's project this is.

Anyway, I'm saying all this because this thread has a tendency to self-righteousness and it's worthwhile thinking a little more about the backgorund and the oppostion rather than, IMHO, arrogantly dismissing it.

Maybe some of us actually have thought about it? .

 

[Blagsta]

I do think Nick has a point though - residents do feel like they have been railroaded into this by outsiders. It's certainly apparent from the minutes they've pushed through my door.

Hopefully there has been proper consultation. If not, then that's not right.

 

[Bob]

Hopefully there has been proper consultation. If not, then that's not right.

It mainly comes down to what you call consultation. The problem is that nobody ever lobbies to have a drug treatment centre right next to their house - so the questions really are:
1. How did the local NHS come to the decision that Brighton Terrace was their preferred location?
2. What did they do then?

The answer to 1. is that they had a set of criteria to do with accessibility, size, disability discrimination etc. and a set of available properties - the list is in the community briefing document they produced. The process of getting from start to where we are now has taken 3 years - and a lot of this was consultation with stakeholders like the police, council, drug users groups, GPs, pharmacies etc. Hence from the points of view of these 'experts' the criteria used are sensible - and so they support the centre.

The answer to 2 is that there have been public meetings on 16th March (general), 14th April (Trinity Residents Association) plus the formal processes of the council.

On the Health Scrutiny Sub Committee –two Labour and two Lib Dem councillors supported the proposal. This includes a Brixton councillor, Donatus Anyanwu.

On the planning committee the issue was discussed and deferred.

There has also been some talk of an alternative location on Acre Lane - particularly from Kate Hoey. I understand the residents round there are also highly opposed to that location.

Nobody has any alternative preferred location with anywhere near the support from police & NHS that Brighton Terrace has.

 

[Blagsta]

That sounds reasonable enough then.

 

[Ms T]

I haven't yet signed the petition because I still feel conflicted about the issues. Of course a treatment centre is necessary, but I am not surprised that the local residents are worried about the impact on them.

This is what Louloubelle posted on another thread about this issue, some time ago now. I think it's very relevant, so I'm reproducing it here.

Unless they are prescribing heroin I would anticipate there being some effect that local people will find challenging, nothing like that predicted in some quarters, but there will be addicts hanging around nearby and there might be an increase in theft from cars. I don't know the area well enough to know if this would represent an improvement or not.

I used to work at a project affiliated with a DDU and needle exhange, both of which had premises within a 2 minute walk of my office in a hospital.

Everyone in the hospital was extremely careful about leaving stuff in their car as there were lots of break ins. Perhaps it's the same everywhere, but to us it felt like an area where many of the addicts couldn't resist stealing stuff if it was there, so people were extra vigilant.

Certainly many of the addicts were on methadone, but they didn't want methadone, they wanted heroin and there was a lot of dealing going on just outside the DDU and the needle exchange (much more so at the needle exchange).

In Camden, the Hari Krishna people set up a free food cafe a couple of years back and petty soon the place was packed with local addicts, many of them needed the food, but they also liked having a place where they could hang out and not be judged.

A local pharmacist (a hindu businessman who I know quite well) made a large donation of his own money to go to the cafe and was very pleased that the addicts were being taken care of and fed. Like me he supports the idea of heroin prescribing and shooting galleries for addicts.

When I last spoke to him he had joined the list of people campaigning to have the place closed down. He felt very sad about it, but his pharmacy had had several armed (knives) robberies since the addicts started to meet there, loads of local people's cars have been broken into, people had started dealing crack in broad daylight in the street just a few yards from the cafe.

I don't know what will happen re this drug treatment centre. I know they have to exist, but I feel they should be prescribing heroin and providing supportive services including specialist and primary care services.

I hope I'm wrong but I think that some people may be being a bit optimistic about the effects of this centre on the local community.

 

[Bob]

I haven't yet signed the petition because I still feel conflicted about the issues. Of course a treatment centre is necessary, but I am not surprised that the local residents are worried about the impact on them.

This is what Louloubelle posted on another thread about this issue, some time ago now. I think it's very relevant, so I'm reproducing it here.

Unless they are prescribing heroin I would anticipate there being some effect that local people will find challenging, nothing like that predicted in some quarters, but there will be addicts hanging around nearby and there might be an increase in theft from cars. I don't know the area well enough to know if this would represent an improvement or not.

I used to work at a project affiliated with a DDU and needle exhange, both of which had premises within a 2 minute walk of my office in a hospital.

Everyone in the hospital was extremely careful about leaving stuff in their car as there were lots of break ins. Perhaps it's the same everywhere, but to us it felt like an area where many of the addicts couldn't resist stealing stuff if it was there, so people were extra vigilant.

Certainly many of the addicts were on methadone, but they didn't want methadone, they wanted heroin and there was a lot of dealing going on just outside the DDU and the needle exchange (much more so at the needle exchange).

In Camden, the Hari Krishna people set up a free food cafe a couple of years back and petty soon the place was packed with local addicts, many of them needed the food, but they also liked having a place where they could hang out and not be judged.

A local pharmacist (a hindu businessman who I know quite well) made a large donation of his own money to go to the cafe and was very pleased that the addicts were being taken care of and fed. Like me he supports the idea of heroin prescribing and shooting galleries for addicts.

When I last spoke to him he had joined the list of people campaigning to have the place closed down. He felt very sad about it, but his pharmacy had had several armed (knives) robberies since the addicts started to meet there, loads of local people's cars have been broken into, people had started dealing crack in broad daylight in the street just a few yards from the cafe.

I don't know what will happen re this drug treatment centre. I know they have to exist, but I feel they should be prescribing heroin and providing supportive services including specialist and primary care services.

I hope I'm wrong but I think that some people may be being a bit optimistic about the effects of this centre on the local community.

This really comes down to a number of arguments that say that the centre will lead to more crimes committed by addicts who aren't getting heroin.

I think there are a number of reasons this won't happen:

1. There will be street warden during the opening hours of the centre specifically allocated to Brighton Terrace - so dramatically increasing the presence / visibility of anti crime meaures.

2. The Stockwell Project (which treats heroin users among others) is the closest example we have of how the centre will work - and it is currently thought by residents in Stockwell not to cause problems - and this is why the 'Stockwell Partnership' has specifically written to support the Brighton Terrace centre. I can't speak for the place that Louloubelle worked at but it seems to me that the Stockwell Project is the closest example we have of what will happen. Indeed the Stockwell Project would be expanded by the NHS if they could - instead they would like to move its patients to Brighton Terrace. So we are in many cases talking about people who are already being treated in Stockwell without causing problems in the community there.

3. NHS, council & Police are all locally supportive of this. In addition the prominence of this centre given the opposition to it currently is likely to make it impossible to ignore problems there. The centre is also supported by a wide range of other organisations convinced that it's a good place for a centre, listed below.

And if you'd like to read any more have a look at this set of arguments in favour of the centre

For instance you'll find a list of people supporting the project:
South London & Maudsley Health Trust
Lambeth Primary Care Trust representing 34 GP practices and 30 community pharmacies
Lambeth police
Brixton Area Forum
Lambeth Health Scrutiny Sub Committee 25th May 2005 attended by councillors McConnell (Lib Dem), Meader (Lib Dem), O’Malley (Labour) in their capacities as members of the committee
The Stockwell Partnership
St Mungos homelessness charity
Users of drug treatment services at the Stockwell project
Lambeth Crime Prevention Trust
The Drug and Alcohol and Crime Disorder Reduction Partnership
Hetherington and Brixton Hill GPs Practices
Lambeth Commmunity Safety Team rough sleepers coordinator
Lambeth Harbour services for crack users

 

[netbob]

Unless they are prescribing heroin I would anticipate there being some effect that local people will find challenging, nothing like that predicted in some quarters, but there will be addicts hanging around nearby and there might be an increase in theft from cars.

I think there are studies that show heroin prescription to be better than (or at least as good as) methadone, and certainly much better than the dirty street heroin mixed with fuck knows what. But I dont think the trials have never been extended, mainly because the Daily Mail headlines become too easy to write (government giving away heroin, soft on scag etc). That said methadone is still helpfull for lots of people.

When I last spoke to him he had joined the list of people campaigning to have the place closed down. He felt very sad about it, but his pharmacy had had several armed (knives) robberies since the addicts started to meet there, loads of local people's cars have been broken into, people had started dealing crack in broad daylight in the street just a few yards from the cafe.

I'm not sure about the armed robberies, but the crack dealing and low level theft seem to be things that are already happening. Accepting the centre could be a way to force the authorities to do more about the existing problems. The promise of the wardens for Brighton Terrace seems to be a good start.

 

[nicky1957]

Birghton Terrace Drug Centre

Make it legal

 

[nicky1957]

get a life mate

 

[nicky1957]

Just as soon as you piss off from my PM box. Simple.

Get a life mate

 

[Ol Nick]

The Police have promised better policing of the area, better lighting, better surveillance etc.

They've been promising all that for 5 years or more. Will it happen? It's a gamble.

Also, the fact that the drug centre will have a needle exchange will decrease rather than increase the blight of discarded needles.

Not if attracts more chaotic users to the area. It's a gamble.

The Stockwell Project, which is aiming to relocate to the site, has been sited for many years on a local council estate and next to a busy local school (Stockwell Park). Local residents have never complained about the project or its users.

But that's not in an area with massive open dealing that already attracts users from far and wide. What effect will this centre have in such a place? It's a gamble.

Perhaps the middle class and so called "professionals" residents of Brighton Terrace know something more on the subject of Drug Misuse that the working classes in Stockwell may not be aware of.

Now I'm beginning to doubt you've ever been to Brighton Terrace. It's a Lambeth Housing estate.

It's all a lot of hypocrisy too. I wouldn't be surprised if the residents of Brighton Terrace don't indulge in a line of coke or two as an after dinner indulgence at their dinner parties.

One of the flats was a crack house till recently so probably, yes.

This sounds like the same kind of view that the SLAM people at the planning meeting came up with. Very uninformed about the history of drug problems in Brighton Terrace. Ready to take a gamble on a new centre.

SLAM want to take a gamble with the drug problem in Brighton Terrace (in part to have a location that their staff can easily access by tube). The residents of Brighton Terrace would rather they took their gambles eleswhere. And since SLAM couldn't prove that their plan was anything more than a gamble they lost the support of the councillors present.

(And in response to an earlier question, yes, I think that with more details I could be persuaded that it was a viable idea. But it has been very badly handled as fait accompli between the Lambeth Chief Exec and the NHS, and the plans for protecting Brighton Terrace from side-effects are sketchy and last-minute. It's hard to believe the people running the centre set much store by them. And anyway, I'll be much easier to persuade than most of the residents I've met.)

 

[Blagsta]

There's a needle exchange at The Harbour in Loughborough Junction. Does anyone feel that it has led to more problems in that area?

 

[nicky1957]

They've been promising all that for 5 years or more. Will it happen? It's a gamble.
ic users to the area. It's a gamble.


But that's not in an area with massive open dealing that already attracts users from far and wide. What effect will this centre have in such a place? It's a gamble.


Now I'm beginning to doubt you've ever been to Brighton Terrace. It's a Lambeth Housing estate.


One of the flats was a crack house till recently so probably, yes.

This sounds like the same kind of view that the SLAM people at the planning meeting came up with. Very uninformed about the history of drug problems in Brighton Terrace. Ready to take a gamble on a new centre.

SLAM want to take a gamble with the drug problem in Brighton Terrace (in part to have a location that their staff can easily access by tube). The residents of Brighton Terrace would rather they took their gambles eleswhere. And since SLAM couldn't prove that their plan was anything more than a gamble they lost the support of the councillors present.

(And in response to an earlier question, yes, I think that with more details I could be persuaded that it was a viable idea. But it has been very badly handled as fait accompli between the Lambeth Chief Exec and the NHS, and the plans for protecting Brighton Terrace from side-effects are sketchy and last-minute. It's hard to believe the people running the centre set much store by them. And anyway, I'll be much easier to persuade than most of the residents I've met.)

Have you considered attending Gambling Anonymous groups? Sounds like you have a problem with gambling there.

 

[Bob]

They've been promising all that for 5 years or more. Will it happen? It's a gamble.


Not if attracts more chaotic users to the area. It's a gamble.


But that's not in an area with massive open dealing that already attracts users from far and wide. What effect will this centre have in such a place? It's a gamble.


Now I'm beginning to doubt you've ever been to Brighton Terrace. It's a Lambeth Housing estate.


One of the flats was a crack house till recently so probably, yes.

This sounds like the same kind of view that the SLAM people at the planning meeting came up with. Very uninformed about the history of drug problems in Brighton Terrace. Ready to take a gamble on a new centre.

SLAM want to take a gamble with the drug problem in Brighton Terrace (in part to have a location that their staff can easily access by tube). The residents of Brighton Terrace would rather they took their gambles eleswhere. And since SLAM couldn't prove that their plan was anything more than a gamble they lost the support of the councillors present.

(And in response to an earlier question, yes, I think that with more details I could be persuaded that it was a viable idea. But it has been very badly handled as fait accompli between the Lambeth Chief Exec and the NHS, and the plans for protecting Brighton Terrace from side-effects are sketchy and last-minute. It's hard to believe the people running the centre set much store by them. And anyway, I'll be much easier to persuade than most of the residents I've met.)

Your views seem to come down to:
1. Things are a bit better than they were so it's a risk having more drug users in the area.
2. You don't trust the police / council to provide lighting/street warden that they promise.
3. The Stockwell project isn't comparable because it's not close to a major drug market.

I'd respond:
1. You're also taking a risk that Lambeth will continue to have serious problems with untreated drug users and that Brighton Terrace will take a serious hit because of this. The new security measures on the flats will break down at some point - and will then be competing with hundreds of council blocks within Lambeth that have broken security doors. Being next to a centre with a strong council guarantee they'll be fixed quickly is an advantage.

2. These promises can be made a legal requirement of the planning decision and the centre could be closed down if they're not fulfilled. This is common in planning decisions and something I'd support.

3. I'm not sure how the Stockwell project is really different from Brighton Terrace. Yup problem drug users will be closer to a major drug market - but they won't be able to take drugs close to Brighton Terrace because of the warden, plus hopefully most of them won't be taking heroin / crack at all.

All the evidence is that crime among drug users drops dramatically once they enter treatment so Brighton Terrace (like the rest of central Brixton) will gain from c. 150 extra users in treatment across Lambeth - and the consequent reduction in crime.