Petition in favour of Brighton Terrace Drug Treatment centre

[BoxSurfer]

I have great admiration for Councillor Palmer (Chair). He was fair, pragmatic, intelligent and very witty and I abolutely enjoyed his witty repart to Kate when he reminded her that this was not the House of Commons when she kept talking out of place.

Some peple really are living in a dreamworld.

I really wish you'd done your homework in this issue before jumping on the bandwagon.

How is it possibly fair that the sponsors of the project be effectively able to 'hold the floor' for an hour when those in opposition were unable to enter the debate after thir 15 minutes were up?

Did you hear some of the wild promises that the SLaM people were saying? Or did you daydream through that, as it seems you have through the whole of this process.

Most laughable was slams response when quesried on the potential for vulnerable service users to be targeted by the dealers. When asked what they were going to do about that, their answer was suitably feckless and glib.

"we wont let it happen" - i mean, really
They are living in a dreamworld

Are you blind or what?
NONE of the councillors on the PAC were in ANY WAY convinced by SLaMs case. They were talking themselves into a corner. The only reason it went through was because of policital lobbying and 'whipping' from council bigwigs, and the complete abuse of the forum by that overfed Palmer bloke. The noticeable abstention of the other LibDem is testimony to that. They had been INSTRUCTED not to vote against.

One thing is for sure, if this centre fails by exposing service users to very real risks in Cental Brixton - as i suspect it will - this wont be a problem felt by brighton terrace, it will affect anyone who lives in central Brixton.

I wonder who'll be sorry then?

there's so much wishfull thinking going on here its funny. With your here I'd suugest you have promising future as a decision maker within SLaM or the Lambeth PCT

The fact is that there's no precedent for a centre of this scale ANYWHERE. this is a massive experiment. No one knows what will happen. Except for BT having 'carte-blanche' with promises made about security improvements that the sponsors were forced to concede.

History, will ulitmately determine who's right. In the meantime i would recommend you do a little homework on SLaMs plans for assisted care for Mental Health, Double Diagnosis and Dual Diagnosis issues - people who have the highest susceptibility to dependency.

You have no idea! really - you dont

hook line and sinker.

 

[IntoStella]

You have no idea! Unfortunately, I do.

Yeah, yeah, it was all an evil conspiracy against you. Compete bull. And offensive, patronising bull at that. Face it: you lost. Enough, finally, with the sour grapes and whining.

 

[IntoStella]

policital lobbying and 'whipping' from council bigwigs.

This is a serious allegation as whipping is strictly not permitted on PAC. Do you have any evidence to back up this allegation?

 

[netbob]

How is it possibly fair that the sponsors of the project be effectively able to 'hold the floor' for an hour when those in opposition were unable to enter the debate after thir 15 minutes were up?

Its wasnt as one sided as you suggest, several speakers (unconnected with the sponsors) were denied the opertunity to speak. e.g. someone from mybrixton.org was down to present the petition, but wasn't called.

The opposition had alot more than 15 minutes and continued to interject afterwards.

 

[nicebutdim]

hook line and sinker.

 

[nicebutdim]

I've been working out exactly how much the owners of those lovely Pimlico-style-up-to-the-first-floor-white-painted Trinity Gardens houses will lose in terms of equity as a result of this decision.

I suspect their property values will take a small downward hit short term - say 5-10k as the nimbies moan over their garden fences - but then increase in the long term.

There'll be a full time warden. Any centre user caught dropping needles locally faces ejection from the centre. There'll be a small army of doctors and nurses 9-5 weekdays plus one 8pm opening.

Result: in terms of street drug use Brighton Terrace will be one of the safest and most controlled areas of Brixton.

These Brighton Terrace nimbies have behaved like absolute sods on this issue - as have their Labour Party elected politicians - and those who are owner occupiers will make money in the long term from last night's decision.

I predict they'll now shut the fuck up.

 

[miss FX]

victory

Hey, where are memespring and nipsla?

I wasn't volunteering to do it on my own.

Congratulations;
I heard on the radio this morning that the matter is settled.
Well done.

 

[minky kropotkin]

boxsurfer doesn't have his facts straight

Boxsurfer seems to falsely attribute much to SLAM. I believe the promises made to take account of residents concerns were by various people including, the police, the drug and alcohol action team (part of the council) and the National Treatment Agency. SLAM was represented at the meeting by clinicans and a couple of managers who are service providers not politicians. SLAM is also a large organisation of which addictions are a minor player - SLAMs core business is mental health and this is managed seperately at the level of Lambeth. SLAM may appear a monolithic unresponsive entity but I think there is a genuine desire from those providing the service in Brixton to make this project work and that includes working with local residents.

 

[colacubes]

Some peple really are living in a dreamworld.
..........

You have no idea! really - you dont

Boxsurfer I'm really sorry you are so upset about this.

This is not however a great big conspiracy against Brighton Terrace residents. We're all fucked off about the problems in Brixton with crack and heroin. We all have to deal with it.

I was at the meeting last night, and I thought it was very fair. Ultimately a planning committee is just that. For planning reasons. They hear arguments on both sides. Yes, the proposers were given longer, but the only reason was so that the members of the committee could question the proposals. People with objections were given a chance to put their points across. But they are not experts in drug treatment and impact assessment.

We were tabled to speak in favour and we didn't get a chance. We had a petition with 348 people in favour of the proposed centre (which I belive was twice as many as the anti petition). We didn't heckle though or complain, we sat and let the process of the committee go through.

The challenge is now to make sure that the centre works. If it works, the centre will make Brighton Terrace the safest place in Brixton. If there are problems I for one will be there supporting the residents of Brighton Terrace to get it sorted.

We all have to live together in Brixton and we all have to deal with the problems that are around. I think a lot of frustration has been felt by other residents that arguments such as "Brighton Terrace is too nice for a treatment centre" have been used by residents (and yes someone did say this at a meeting I was at). I'm sure a number of those residents (not all but some of the most vocal ones) would not have given a monkeys if it was being proposed on one of the estates outside central Brixton.

We are all aware of the problems. We all live with them. We can only make them better by working together as residents. The decision has now been made. It is a good one for the addicts who cannot get treated because of lack of facilities. And if SlaM fuck up the implementation I will support the Brighton Terrace residents in getting it sorted. But it is still the right decision.

 

[pooka]

Excellent post nipsla.

Just so everyone's clear, the process at the meeting was:

The proposers of the project were given 5 mins (turned out to be 8.5) to state their case.

Community opposition to the proposal was then given 8.5 mins to state their case (by my watch they in fact got rather longer). That included Kate Hoey and Cllr Prentice.

In fact, no opportunity was given for community support to be expressed - mybrixton was down to speak the petition but didn't get called. Nor did Cllr Angie Meader who is councillor for a neighbouring ward and Chair of the Health Scrutiny Committee.

Then the proposers were questioned and challenged by the Committee. There was no session for the Committee to specifically challenge the opponents.

By my reading this all, if anything, favoured the opponents. But I don't think they helped their case by interruptions and heckling.

AS nipsla says, the decision has been made and it is in all our interests to make it work. I think, with a little bit of reflection, the Brighton Terrace/Trinity Gardens residents will find their best allies amongst many of the local people and organisations who supported the project - most of whom don't think the BT/TG people are NIMBY's or house-price obsessives, just people with understandable concerns that have to be addressed.

In the immediate term that is best facilitated through the proposed project team. But the Treatment Centre and any issues arising from it should properly be addressed within the wider context of community safety and crime in central brixton, and we need to build a genuine and active interest group around that, involving residents, traders, people who work in the town centre and people who use it. That's what we lack and that's why the Brighton Terrace proposal was able to become devisive.

 

[Kiddo-Whizz]

Some peple really are living in a dreamworld.

I really wish you'd done your homework in this issue before jumping on the bandwagon.

How is it possibly fair that the sponsors of the project be effectively able to 'hold the floor' for an hour when those in opposition were unable to enter the debate after thir 15 minutes were up?

Did you hear some of the wild promises that the SLaM people were saying? Or did you daydream through that, as it seems you have through the whole of this process.

Most laughable was slams response when quesried on the potential for vulnerable service users to be targeted by the dealers. When asked what they were going to do about that, their answer was suitably feckless and glib.

"we wont let it happen" - i mean, really
They are living in a dreamworld

Are you blind or what?
NONE of the councillors on the PAC were in ANY WAY convinced by SLaMs case. They were talking themselves into a corner. The only reason it went through was because of policital lobbying and 'whipping' from council bigwigs, and the complete abuse of the forum by that overfed Palmer bloke. The noticeable abstention of the other LibDem is testimony to that. They had been INSTRUCTED not to vote against.

One thing is for sure, if this centre fails by exposing service users to very real risks in Cental Brixton - as i suspect it will - this wont be a problem felt by brighton terrace, it will affect anyone who lives in central Brixton.

I wonder who'll be sorry then?

there's so much wishfull thinking going on here its funny. With your here I'd suugest you have promising future as a decision maker within SLaM or the Lambeth PCT

The fact is that there's no precedent for a centre of this scale ANYWHERE. this is a massive experiment. No one knows what will happen. Except for BT having 'carte-blanche' with promises made about security improvements that the sponsors were forced to concede.

History, will ulitmately determine who's right. In the meantime i would recommend you do a little homework on SLaMs plans for assisted care for Mental Health, Double Diagnosis and Dual Diagnosis issues - people who have the highest susceptibility to dependency.

You have no idea! really - you dont

hook line and sinker.

Get over it mate. You are talking through your arse yourself. Do you have any experience of working with drug users? No, I don't think you do. So stop talking shite mate.

 

[great]

Is very hard to work with drug users. They are very irascible and hard to manage with. I wanted to be a volunteer in a shit-eating contest but I thought better and I didn't do it. Is very hard for everyone. You have to be very resistant at stress.

 

[tarannau]

I was wondering why this thread resurfaced, expecting to see some kind of update.

Instead it seems to have been bumped by a half-literate spamskull, linking to some rehab site. Pish.

 

[Mr Retro]

Instead it seems to have been bumped by a half-literate spamskull, linking to some rehab site. Pish.

 

[crawlers]

7 (!) years on, what are the views of the service as it exists and its impact?

 

[Rushy]

I was thinking about this just the other day. As far as I can tell the operation is almost entirely inconspicuous (although I don't live in the immediate vicinity anymore) whilst the change in (at least conspicuous) crack and intravenous drug use has been spectacular. I'm sure that lots of different parties have been responsible for that improvement but can only assume SLAM has been a key player.

I was sympathetic to concerns about the exact location at the time. Given the state of Brixton at the time, or at least recent preceding history, I can still understand why people were worried. It was not a "risk free" location compared to some others. But it appears to have been managed really well and Brixton is a very different place now.

I'd be interested to hear some insight from someone involved with the project.

 

[Rushy]

Coincidentally, I was chatting last week to someone who lives on Brighton Terrace. Apparently they were recently leafleted warning of antisocial drug related behaviour in the street although they said they had not noticed anything themselves. No flyers in Tunstall Road that I know of. Anyone else seen this leaflet / heard anything?