Palm: Pre, webOS & app discussion

[editor]

I have learnt so much out from muppet tech sites by simply having a fast updating RSS reader...

Not that you've ever made a mistake, posted something incorrectly or accidentally relayed false information, eh?

If you work on tech websites you're on hideously short deadlines as you try and get the stories out. Even if you research stories thoroughly, it's easy to make mistakes - I've even received press releases that contain inaccurate information and some PR agencies send out horribly vague statements.

They're only 'muppets' if they can't be bothered to correct their stories.

 

[grit]

Not that you've ever made a mistake, posted something incorrectly or accidentally relayed false information, eh?

If you work on tech websites you're on hideously short deadlines as you try and get the stories out. Even if you research stories thoroughly, it's easy to make mistakes - I've even received press releases that contain inaccurate information and some PR agencies send out horribly vague statements.

They're only 'muppets' if they can't be bothered to correct their stories.

The article in question had [DO NOT PUBLISH] in the title and then they claimed they didnt know how it go onto the RSS, if you fuck up at least have the balls to say what happened and dont try and force other bloggers to take down their reference to your fuckup.

 

[grit]

Anyway those TOS show a pretty much identical model (actually a bit worse) than the apple app store. I say a bit worse because it appears that palm wont even handle the payment aspects which for a lot of developers is one of the strenghts of the apple app store.

Those big corporate guys who you seem to dislike so much editor are all playing the same game, which really shouldnt be surprising

 

[jæd]

Have you a source for this please?

Does a SDK Agreement in July supercede a PR announcement from Feb...? Lawyers are internal, and you would have to sign a NDA. (And I suspect they are not the only set of lawyers looking at the terms and charging money)

 

[grit]

Does a SDK Agreement in July supercede a PR announcement from Feb...? Lawyers are internal, and you would have to sign a NDA. (And I suspect they are not the only set of lawyers looking at the terms and charging money)

The PR announcement is vague enough "you can sideload" he just trailed off before he said "only from sanctioned Palm providers".

ETA: "If you have your own valuable IP in a WebOs app you should do your own obfuscation."

If its js/html/css there isint much you can do to protect it which kinda sucks.

 

[editor]

Does a SDK Agreement in July supercede a PR announcement from Feb...? Lawyers are internal, and you would have to sign a NDA. (And I suspect they are not the only set of lawyers looking at the terms and charging money)

So when you claimed that "Lawyers are looking into this as we speak....", that was you giving an example of the poor reporting you were talking about earlier, yes?

 

[Crispy]

Oh Zing! Point scored! High Five!

 

[grit]

Except for the fact he is skipping all the posts previously that point out the holes in his argument (with direct quotes for Palm's TOS no less) and which backup what was said over on the iphone thread for the past few pages

 

[editor]

Except for the fact he is skipping all the posts previously that point out the holes in his argument (with direct quotes for Palm's TOS no less) and which backup what was said over on the iphone thread for the past few pages

Palm's TOS covers apps being distributed via their app store.

Can you produce any links that state that Palm will take legal action or attempt to 'brick' the handsets of anyone installing apps from third party sites? There's over a hundred 'homebrew' apps currently being distributed and Palm has taken no action against any of the authors.

 

[Crispy]

Except for the fact he is skipping all the posts previously that point out the holes in his argument (with direct quotes for Palm's TOS no less) and which backup what was said over on the iphone thread for the past few pages

sorry, should have put a on

 

[grit]

They dont state it specifically because they dont need to. in 4.3 the sentence that I bolded shows they have the right to decide what gets distrbuted (this obviously extends to used aswell).

The point is that those homebrew applications are currently breaking the TOS, why are they allowed to contuine, few possiblites. prob becuase Its a new handset with fuck all apps and they have far more pressing things to worry about now that they have launched their do or die product. Why? because the only people who care about this stuff is nerds like us on internet forums

The point being made here is that the motive and ideaology in palms model is the same for apple. Make money for the shareholders and control what happens on your platform so you dont get shafted by something unexpected.

which is what ive been saying to you for the past few days



ETA 2nd time: The fact that your looking for an actual sentence similar to "if you do something we dont like we will brick your phone" shows you dont have much experience reading these sort of documents. Those two paragraphs of legalise above cover everything, because a lot of very smart very rich lawyers created them under instruction by palm

 

[editor]

ETA 2nd time: The fact that your looking for an actual sentence similar to "if you do something we dont like we will brick your phone" shows you dont have much experience reading these sort of documents. Those two paragraphs of legalise above cover everything, because a lot of very smart very rich lawyers created them under instruction by palm

Coming from someone who has already showed woeful ignorance of how the mobile app industry operates, I'll just ignore that load of cloudy, vague bollocks.

FYI: No other handset manufacturer has threatened to brick phones apart from Apple, and no one has threatened to do it since.

Oh, and I have no expectations of an 'open source utopia', but I'm pretty sure that Palm's model won't be as controlling and as morally censorious as Apple's. In fact, it already isn't.

sorry, should have put a on

 

[grit]

Coming from someone who has already showed woeful ignorance of how the mobile app industry operates, I'll just ignore that load of cloudy, vague bollocks.

FYI: No other handset manufacturer has threatened to brick phones apart from Apple, and no one has threatened to do it since.

Oh, and I have no expectations of an 'open source utopia', but I'm pretty sure that Palm's model won't be as controlling and as morally censorious as Apple's. In fact, it already isn't.

Funny because I think (correct me if I'm wrong please) I'm the only person here who writes mobile applications for a living.

Your attempting to make direct comparisons for a phone that is released (recently i might add) to only the American market so far, by a company who is on the chopping block financially (15 dollars a share ffs). To the monster that is apple who are on their 3rd generation of a similar handset and who are very strong (closed at about 165 dollars a share i think).

Just because you dont agree with me, doesnt mean I dont know what I'm talking about.

 

[jæd]

ETA 2nd time: The fact that your looking for an actual sentence similar to "if you do something we dont like we will brick your phone" shows you dont have much experience reading these sort of documents. Those two paragraphs of legalise above cover everything, because a lot of very smart very rich lawyers created them under instruction by palm

This is why we have fairly smart, hopefully very affordable lawyers (we can hope...) looking at these things...

So when you claimed that "Lawyers are looking into this as we speak....", that was you giving an example of the poor reporting you were talking about earlier, yes?

Not unless I suddenly turned into a tech blogger / journo.

30 - 15, I make it...

 

[editor]

Funny because I think (correct me if I'm wrong please) I'm the only person here who writes mobile applications for a living.

You're probably the only person here who thought that Blackberry, Nokia and Microsoft vetted all their apps and employed the same monopolistic and censorial approach to app distribution as Apple.

 

[jæd]

Funny because I think (correct me if I'm wrong please) I'm the only person here who writes mobile applications for a living.

With me its about (at most) 20 % of my job... Ideally I would like to make it more but its just seen as a research project / keeping a toe in.

Your attempting to make direct comparisons for a phone that is released (recently i might add) to only the American market so far, by a company who is on the chopping block financially (15 dollars a share ffs). To the monster that is apple who are on their 3rd generation of a similar handset and who are very strong (closed at about 165 dollars a share i think).

Its also a comparison between a company that rebooted smart-phones with an innovative offering that's probably struggling under its success, compared to a tiny company where much is still in development and just hot air.

 

[grit]

You're probably the only person here who thought that Blackberry, Nokia and Microsoft vetted all their apps and employed the same monopolistic and censorial approach to app distribution as Apple.

There are vetting processes for official applications, and i was happy to concede that those company's dont take the exact same attitude. They really wish that they had an application platform as successfull as apples so they would have to take these actions.

Before the TOS was posted and we had a look I would have continued on this debate, but you obviously have no interest in changing/conceding any of your argument even with the evidence provided. Thats your choice, and as its your site maybe you dont want to lose face, fair enough.

I think I've articulated myself well and shown with evidence why certain practices are common in the mobile industry and why they will contuine. So on that I think I'm going to check out of this debate as it doesnt feel like we are getting anywhere.

Once again you can claimed you have kicked my ass, you seem to get a lot of enjoyment from it

 

[jæd]

So on that I think I'm going to check out of this debate as it doesnt feel like we are getting anywhere.

Good advice. I think its best to return when Palm have something solid to offer...

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Good advice. I think its best to return when Palm have something solid to offer...

Indeed.

 

[editor]

Back on topic, a new Homebrew App Gallery has just gone up on precentral.
There's some useful-looking apps in there, including unofficial Google Voice apps.

http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps

Oh, and as for the supposed high Pre return rates:

Goldberg says his talks with Palm management suggest Pre return rates are no higher than usual for a new device; his chats with developers suggest a high level of interest in the Web OS software of the phone, and he expects Palm to show progress with its applications catalog by September. Component suppliers, furthermore, indicate Palm is up’ing its orders from them, which he takes as a positive sign for Pre sales down the road.

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtrader...utsche-says-pre-returns-normal-ups-tgt-to-17/

 

[Piers Gibbon]

argh...right now I am trying to restore my data to my second intermittently crashing Palm Centro (after a brief stint back with my old previous model - which then died, this was the second one of those I owned - I washed the first one) ...I'm loyal me

now my LifeBalance conduit keeps crashing and my Restore did not restore the email settings..or loads of other stuff. Missing Synch is being flakey on me, this Centro's down key is broken and it's all worn me down... I just want to get on and do some work, I just need my calendar, addresses, email and LifeBalance to work everyday, that's it

I don't think I can wait the three? months for the Pre. I am not rushing but headed foot draggingly towards an iPhone, I'll get the shortest 2 bloody year contract and then maybe slide back to the Pre mark 2 when it has a huge catalogue of apps, a video camera, more memory and a Gobbling TeasMaid. Have fun and pls iron out any niggles k thnks bai..

I tried Palm, I really tried. Good luck.

Sad..I remember banging on about my Palm 650 as the first great smartphone, seven years ago or so?

(just as a tiny insight into the mind of this consumer...I hate the Appleborg for censoring apps and borking the iTunes/Pre connection and I hope they give in. buuut I have to confess as a non-skillz geek i am looking forward to synching entirely natively Macstylee..no conduits..no mysterious palmdoubling of contacts - which helped frak up my accounts software address book. I just want it to work and synch with sod all fiddling now, always.

I really want the Pre to succeed, I think Apple will benefit from the competition as well, and I hope it makes them open up a bit and chill.

and I cannot really understand why the Pre is not here, now.

But with some bitterness I do remember the unforgivable 5?!? months it took to make the latest Palm centro firmware update available to Mac users...and as I'm typing that I realise that if I trusted Palms competence a bit more I might have bought my sixth (!!!) Palm smartphone on ebay and hung on in there for three months more....

 

[editor]

That sucks.

Just a thought: why not resurrect your Treo 650 for now or pick up a cheap one off eBay? There's one there with a 'buy now or best offer' for just £35!

The Pre is still expected 'soon' but no date yet.

 

[Piers Gibbon]

my old 650 died..
all my many Palms are now defective....(and have been therefore grinding me down)

I might still have bought yet another one off ebay...If I absolutely KNEW the Pre would be running LifeBalance natively (not in an emulator with consequent synching potential mares) by the time it comes out in Nov. But I don't.

as I say I need to change phone now. and I just want it to work. and I don't want to change for the fourth time in a couple of months, and then keep crossing my fingers for a LifeBalance conduit. At the moment the only real reason for me to wait would be my virtual keyboard allergy. But I tried it again and it's ok.

Funnily enough I might buy another centro for my girlfriend though..she had a bad experience with some HTC? virtual keyboard and now wants another palm (it was because I'd lent her the spare that this was even more nightmarish)

 

[editor]

The latest rumour is that the Pre will be coming to O2 on October 30th....

 

[Piers Gibbon]

that's slightly sooner than we thought..good

update on my oh so interesting saga..I'm up and running on the centro again, just
- Resco backups work..Missing Synch on the Mac ones simply do not.
- TomTom are ripoff artists, I bought it for my first Treo...but because I have had three die on me I cannot transfer my TomTom software again they say.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

that's slightly sooner than we thought..good

update on my oh so interesting saga..I'm up and running on the centro again, just
- Resco backups work..Missing Synch on the Mac ones simply do not.
- TomTom are ripoff artists, I bought it for my first Treo...but because I have had three die on me I cannot transfer my TomTom software again they say.

Its like they are almost asking you to torrent it.

 

[editor]

that's slightly sooner than we thought..good

update on my oh so interesting saga..I'm up and running on the centro again, just
- Resco backups work..Missing Synch on the Mac ones simply do not.

Have you written to the folks at Missing Sync? They're usually pretty good at tech support. They've also got a Windows version coming up soon which is good news for me: http://www.markspace.com/products/pre/windows/palm-pre-sync-overview.html

The October 30th release date rumour is still floating about, although there's no definite pricing details yet (iPhone-like tariffs have been suggested by some).

Palm have been promoting the Pre in the States with some fairly weird adverts that have got a mixed reaction from the tech blogs, but it seems that they're proving pretty effective with th epublic: http://mypre.com/people-feel-inspiration-and-happiness-on-palm-pre-ad-study-2009112695/

 

[sumimasen]

The Gadget Show did a quick video article on iPhone v Pre v N97. iPhone just edged it for them, not clear why though.

http://fwd.five.tv/gadgets/phones/palm-pre

 

[editor]

I just watched that - the things it got marked down for (no video, no block email delete) are almost certainly going to be added soon.

 

[Teepee]

it seems like the palm pre spies on it's users,

http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/Palm_Pre_privacy/

sends your GPS co ordinates and list of installed apps back to palm HQ. Weird. Can any pre owners replicate this guy's findings?

e2a: slashdot article http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1334059

e2a again: seems confirmed. http://www.precentral.net/fyi-pre-reports-your-location-palm