Palm: Pre, webOS & app discussion

[Piers Gibbon]

I was asking about tethering on 02 (about the iphone) and the guy in carphone warehouse said you could just pay the 15 quid for one month...and then drop it the next...then ring up three months later and put it on again for one month

that would suit me fine as most of the time I'd like to leave the lappy at home..but I cannot believe 02 wont put some stupid barrier in place so you can't do that

 

[Sunray]

I just turned my Touch HD into a wifi modem/router, software was on the latest rom I put on it. Orange don't seem to have a way of stopping you tethering. Data allowence is stingy, but as I don't often travel with a laptop it does me fine.

They can port block for perhaps 80, 443 and 25 only which you'd find ok for basic use but shit for anything else. Could monitor user agent strings, number on the ttl and mac address for a tethering check.

 

[Crispy]

user agent can be spoofed.
up your laptop's TTL by +1.
mac adress is tricky though

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Fair enough, but they don't seem to block it at the moment and I'm not going to start streaming stuff or downloading torrents through it.

 

[Sunray]

user agent can be spoofed.
up your laptop's TTL by +1.
mac adress is tricky though

Pain in the arse to spoof all those. Just get a 3G dongle.

 

[jæd]

And this will do nicely

http://www.slashgear.com/palm-pre-wifi-app-creates-diy-evdo-router-video-0351040/

So we've already forgotten about this, then : http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/story/palm-silences-pre-dev-wiki-tethering-talk/2009-06-15

The Pre Dev Wiki webOS developer community information resource said it will honor a request from Pre manufacturer Palm and cease all discussion concerning tethering the smartphone to laptops for mobile wireless Internet access, explaining that such talk risks upsetting the device maker's relationship with operator partner Sprint.

 

[editor]

Presumably the author isn't part of the Pre Dev Wiki webOS developer community. Still, at least Palm won't be threatening to brick peoples phones.

 

[jæd]

Presumably the author isn't part of the Pre Dev Wiki webOS developer community. Still, at least Palm won't be threatening to brick peoples phones.

There will probably be an OTA update that closes this instead...

 

[editor]

There will probably be an OTA update that closes this instead...

Maybe, maybe not. There's already over a hundred 'homebrew' apps available, and with Palm not following Apple's ludicrous bully-boy lead of threatening to brick the phones of anyone not doing exactly as they say, I'd imagine such apps will continue to be made available.

 

[jæd]

Maybe, maybe not. There's already over a hundred 'homebrew' apps available, and with Palm not following Apple's ludicrous bully-boy lead of threatening to brick the phones of anyone not doing exactly as they say, I'd imagine such apps will continue to be made available.

Cool. 2007 wants its discussion points back. You can still run homebrew apps on the iPhone. Just that no-one bothers with them now there's the App Store.

I predict exactly the same happening once Palm gets it App Store running.

 

[editor]

I predict exactly the same happening once Palm gets it App Store running.

You predict Palm will actively try to brick phones running 'unauthorised' software? You want to be put a bet on that?

In the States, the Palm TV campaign has involved a rather creepy looking woman which has got a very mixed reaction but - tellingly - it continues to churn up column inches which I guess means it's done the job (either way, it has to be better than the dreadful U2 Blackberry advert).
http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/04/palms-ad-agency-loves-that-youre-creeped-out-by-new-tv-spots/

 

[jæd]

You predict Palm will actively try to brick phones running 'unauthorised' software? You want to be put a bet on that?

You seem to have mis-interpreted my post:

"You can still run homebrew apps on the iPhone. Just that no-one bothers with them now there's the App Store.

I predict exactly the same happening once Palm gets it App Store running."

Once people are able to get Apps through the Pre App Store only a minority will bother with homebrew.

 

[editor]

Once people are able to get Apps through the Pre App Store only a minority will bother with homebrew.

I'd say that very much depends on what apps are available outside the App Store - after all there's nothing stopping people buying apps from third party sites, with no jailbreaking or fiddling about needed.

You are aware that Pre users aren't forced to buy their apps through just the one, highly controlled and censor-happy corporate outlet, yes?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I was asking about tethering on 02 (about the iphone) and the guy in carphone warehouse said you could just pay the 15 quid for one month...and then drop it the next...then ring up three months later and put it on again for one month

that would suit me fine as most of the time I'd like to leave the lappy at home..but I cannot believe 02 wont put some stupid barrier in place so you can't do that

Seriously??

 

[grit]

Editor: Seeing how you seem to be the champion of the Pre, have you managed to get your hands on one already?

 

[editor]

Editor: Seeing how you seem to be the champion of the Pre, have you managed to get your hands on one already?

I'm not a "champion" of the phone, but it certainly seems to be the one that comes closest to matching my needs. It hasn't been released in the UK yet but it's had some tremendous reviews in the US.

 

[grit]

I'm not a "champion" of the phone, but it certainly seems to be the one that comes closest to matching my needs. It hasn't been released in the UK yet but it's had some tremendous reviews in the US.

Oh just thought you grabbed one off ebay or something. If I was that excited by a bit of tech I wouldnt be able to restrain myself

 

[editor]

Oh just thought you grabbed one off ebay or something. If I was that excited by a bit of tech I wouldnt be able to restrain myself

There'd be no point - there's no GSM version yet.

 

[jæd]

You are aware that Pre users aren't forced to buy their apps through just the one, highly controlled and censor-happy corporate outlet, yes?

I love the loaded language here. Btw, the SDK Terms and Conditions indicate otherwise. See "4.3 : Applications Can Only Be Distributed Through the Palm Application Catalog, etc, etc" http://developer.palm.com/termsofservice.html

 

[jæd]

Oh just thought you grabbed one off ebay or something. If I was that excited by a bit of tech I wouldnt be able to restrain myself

Surprised he hasn't played with one in NYC, or at least installed the SDK to use the emulator....

 

[editor]

I love the loaded language herel

My words are carefully chosen and entirely accurate. The Apple appstore is absolutely a highly controlled and censor-happy corporate outlet. It is in sole control of what apps get approved and it regularly censors apps based on moral grounds - and it's pissed this long time Apple journo off so much that's he abandoning the iPhone: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/31/i-quit-the-iphone/

As for Palm, you can freely download Palm Pre apps from third party sites, just like you can do with Windows Mobile, Blackberry, Symbian etc etc.

Rest assured, if Palm suddenly start acting like Apple then I'll be just as quick to call them cunts too.

Surprised he hasn't played with one in NYC, or at least installed the SDK to use the emulator....

I'm certainly interested in the Palm Pre, but I'm not going to go jetting off to New York just to play with one, or start faffing about with an emulator.

 

[jæd]

My words are carefully chosen and entirely accurate. The Apple appstore is absolutely a highly controlled and censor-happy corporate outlet. It is in sole control of what apps get approved and it regularly censors apps based on moral grounds - and it's pissed this long time Apple journo off so much that's he abandoning the iPhone: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/31/i-quit-the-iphone/

Oh noes...! A big-mouth blogger has a hissy fit...! Apple gonna fail for sure...!

Rest assured, if Palm suddenly start acting like Apple then I'll be just as quick to call them cunts too.

We shall wait and see...

 

[grit]

4.2 and 4.3 on that TOS makes for a very interesting read.

And please dont back yourself up with idiots like techcrunch bloggers.

From the TOS if people cant be arsed clicking the link:

4.2 Application Signing. Developer acknowledges and agrees that Applications which access or make use of Palm’s APIs may not be installed or used on Palm Devices, except in a test environment, without first being signed with a certificate issued by or for Palm. Developer acknowledges and agrees that the method under which such certificates will be issued, and Developer’s ability to distribute such Applications for use with Palm Devices will be subject to further terms and conditions, which may include additional fees for application signing. Such terms and conditions shall be presented to Developer upon or before Developer’s request for issuance of a certificate for any Application.

4.3 Applications Can Only Be Distributed Through the Palm Application Catalog. Developer acknowledges and agrees, that absent a separate written agreement with Palm, Developer may not distribute any Application except as allowed by Palm’s formal approved distribution process and channel (the “Application Catalog”). Developer acknowledges and agrees that (a) distribution of Applications will be subject to further terms and conditions, which may include a share of the revenue generated from sale of the Applications to be paid to Palm by Developer, where such terms and conditions shall be presented to Developer upon or before Developer’s request for distribution of any Application, (b) because of certain laws, regulations, as well as contractual or other restrictions, Palm may refuse to allow the distribution of certain types of Applications, and (c) distributed Applications may be viewable or inspectable by third parties, and Palm is not obligated to take any steps to obfuscate the code associated with the Applications or take any other steps to prevent third parties from viewing or inspecting Application code.

Edited to add: The reason I call techcrunch idiots that for a supposedly tech site they cant figure out how a certain story made it into their RSS feed and then went around the net asking people to help them cover up their fuck up

Oh and bold emphasis mine.

 

[editor]

(b) because of certain laws, regulations, as well as contractual or other restrictions, Palm may refuse to allow the distribution of certain types of Applications

That's OK because you'll still be able to freely download the programs elsewhere. See the difference?

Palm CEO Ed Colligan Talks Pre with Investors

Not only will Palm have an app store at launch, they're not locking down the device so you can only install apps from their app store. You'll be able to "side load" apps directly over USB or over the air from any provider.

http://www.precentral.net/palm-ceo-ed-colligan-talks-pre-investors

 

[jæd]

4.2 and 4.3 on that TOS makes for a very interesting read.

These are the ones. It will be interesting if these can (or are) be used to take-down homebrew apps, and whether previous announcements are binding or are superceded by the linked agreement. Lawyers are looking into this as we speak...

Its yet more Wait-And-See Pie from Palm...

 

[grit]

Yeah but from the wording of that TOS it looks as if you can download from other sources once they have been sanctioned by Palm. See the use of the SDK is required to write a application that calls palm's API.

To be honest as a developer what would scare me more is actually this line

"Applications may be viewable or inspectable by third parties, and Palm is not obligated to take any steps to obfuscate the code associated with the Applications or take any other steps to prevent third parties from viewing or inspecting Application code."

Which translates to if you do something we like we are going to steal it or let our mates steal it and there is nothing you can do.

 

[jæd]

Edited to add: The reason I call techcrunch idiots that for a supposedly tech site they cant figure out how a certain story made it into their RSS feed and then went around the net asking people to help them cover up their fuck up

I have learnt so much out from muppet tech sites by simply having a fast updating RSS reader...

 

[grit]

The fact that their fuckup could have caused somebody outside of techcrunch his job is what i found really offensive.

 

[editor]

These are the ones. It will be interesting if these can (or are) be used to take-down homebrew apps, and whether previous announcements are binding or are superceded by the linked agreement. Lawyers are looking into this as we speak....

Have you a source for this please?

 

[jæd]

To be honest as a developer what would scare me more is actually this line

"Applications may be viewable or inspectable by third parties, and Palm is not obligated to take any steps to obfuscate the code associated with the Applications or take any other steps to prevent third parties from viewing or inspecting Application code."

Which translates to if you do something we like we are going to steal it or let our mates steal it and there is nothing you can do.

Probably because apps are basically a mashup of Javascript / CSS / HTML, etc. Any bod can read anyone-else's code. If you have your own valuable IP in a WebOs app you should do your own obfuscation.