Palm: Pre, webOS & app discussion

[Kid_Eternity]

Is it? I thought you said on the other thread you didn't see much value in these kinds of test for most people?

Either way isn't it a little undermined by this whopping great caveat:

Keep in mind that this is a non-scientific test that takes place in the CNET studios in San Francisco, a city where the iPhone suffers from widely-reported network problems.

 

[editor]

Is it? I thought you said on the other thread you didn't see much value in these kinds of test for most people?

I said it was interesting, that's all.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Why is it interesting if it doesn't mean anything due to it's methodology being so obviously flawed?

 

[editor]

Why is it interesting if it doesn't mean anything due to it's methodology being so obviously flawed?

I found the feature of interest and certainly don't dismiss all user opinion and comparisons unless they're standing in a lab with their phone.

 

[editor]

Hackers are getting busy with the Pre even though the SDK isn't out yet, and it's an encouraging sign for the platform. Some dude has already got a Nintendo emulator running directly on the Pre.

 

[editor]

Interesting, in-depth article on eWeek:

Why the Palm Pre Is a Major Advancement in Smartphones
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Why-the-Palm-Pre-is-a-Major-Advancement-in-Smartphones/

 

[editor]

Despite their only being a paltry 30 apps currently available and the phone only available in limited numbers, Palm have delivered a staggering one million app downloads already - something that's sure to attract the attention of developers.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/25/palm-app-catalog-sees-1-million-downloads/

There's a great detailed piece on Ars Technica, contrasting the differing UI approaches between the iPhone and the webOS:

So right now, it's obvious that Pre is a 1.0 product, but it's also clear that it's a fantastic start. If Palm can continue to refine webOS and to offer new models in different form factors, then the sky's the limit for where this platform can go.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2009/06/ars-palm-pre-review.ars

 

[Structaural]

Its lacklustre build is a problem for a few owners with cracked screens, I wonder how they'll hold up during a two-year contract:

http://www.precentral.net/psb-pre-screen-cracks-emerge

 

[editor]

Its lacklustre build is a problem for a few owners with cracked screens, I wonder how they'll hold up during a two-year contract:

That article says that they're all being replaced by the stores without any hassle, so it would suggest it's an early production run problem.

 

[Crispy]

That's an excellent article and I'm still only half way through (the ars one)
EDIT: It's really making me want one

 

[jæd]

Despite their only being a paltry 30 apps currently available and the phone only available in limited numbers, Palm have delivered a staggering one million app downloads already - something that's sure to attract the attention of developers.

I make that an average of 6.67 apps downloaded per Pre if this is to be believed :
http://www.gadgetell.com/tech/comment/150k-palm-pre-sold-says-analyst/

How does that compare to iPhone apps...?

Main problem is the SDK isn't on general release until the "end of summer", along with the Pre unit shortage. Although I wonder if WebOS as is easy to use whether it might be a handy prototyping tool...

Do you have any links to an online frontend to the Pre App store...?

There's a great detailed piece on Ars Technica, contrasting the differing UI approaches between the iPhone and the webOS:

That's certainly a comprehensive piece. I made a PDF of the article to read yesterday in the park. PM me if anyone wants a copy.

 

[editor]

That's an excellent article and I'm still only half way through (the ars one)
EDIT: It's really making me want one

The bit about how Palm effectively plumped for an Apple-style method of dealing with multi-tasking is very interesting.

There's no denying that at times it's v1.0-ness shines through, with rough edges here and there, but I think it's a tremendously exciting platform.

 

[editor]

Main problem is the SDK isn't on general release until the "end of summer", along with the Pre unit shortage. Although I wonder if WebOS as is easy to use whether it might be a handy prototyping tool...

It's not on general release, but they're getting it out to 'thousands' of developers and there's already a fair bit of hacking going on.

Do you have any links to an online frontend to the Pre App store...?

It's on their main site.

 

[g force]

That's an excellent article and I'm still only half way through (the ars one)
EDIT: It's really making me want one

It really needs a decent edit though...too many "paradigms" for a start.

 

[jæd]

It's not on general release, but they're getting it out to 'thousands' of developers and there's already a fair bit of hacking going on.

Not to us yet...

It's on their main site.

Where...? I can see http://software.palm.com/uk/en/ but that's old Palm stuff and Windows Mobile... I keep getting bounced back to the uk site... Is it on the us version...?

 

[editor]

Where...? I can see http://software.palm.com/uk/en/ but that's old Palm stuff and Windows Mobile... I keep getting bounced back to the uk site... Is it on the us version...?

It's here (or at least the more well known ones are):
http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre/pre-mobile-applications.html

Bigger listing here:
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone.../20-palm-pre-apps-you-should-try-today-608278

Updated listings here:
http://www.everythingpre.com/forum/palm-pre/updating-pre-apps-list-18791.html

 

[Kid_Eternity]

iPhone 3GS pisses all over the Pre in web browsing speeds:

The results of the iPhone-based tests alone are rather astonishing and seem to indicate that many of Apple’s claims about the performance gains of their 3.0 OS and the iPhone 3GS may hold some water. Using OS 3.0 on the same iPhone 3G yields nearly 3X the JavaScript performance in Mobile Safari vs. using iPhone OS 2.2.1. The iPhone 3GS ups the ante by another factor of 3, bringing JavaScript performance on the iPhone 3GS to just 12X that of a full-powered desktop machine that has well over four times the raw processing muscle alone. The T-Mobile G1 running the “Cupcake” version of the Android OS completed the test suite in about 91 seconds. This makes it about a third faster than the iPhone 3G running Apple’s previous OS (2.2.1). The Palm Pre came storming out of the gate with speeds that closely rival the iPhone 3G running Apple’s latest iPhone OS.

 

[editor]

iPhone 3GS pisses all over the Pre in web browsing speeds:

It's not just about browsing speeds though, is it?

Besides other tests have come up with different results:
http://www.iphonefootprint.com/2009/06/iphone-3g-s-versus-palm-pre-speed-test/

 

[jæd]

It's here (or at least the more well known ones are):
http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre/pre-mobile-applications.html

Bigger listing here:
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone.../20-palm-pre-apps-you-should-try-today-608278

Updated listings here:
http://www.everythingpre.com/forum/palm-pre/updating-pre-apps-list-18791.html

Thanks, thats useful.

The main problem appears to be :

The payment system for the Palm app store — important if the company wants to charge for certain programs — is still under construction. And most crucially, Palm has yet to open its software development kit, the main set of tools needed to write apps, to most of the thousands of developers who have expressed an interest in creating programs for the Pre.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/technology/companies/24palm.html

My bold.

My thoughts are that they've had six months to plan for this and have have been shown how this works by Apple. (And they are supposed to have Apple devs...) Why are they taking their time...? Did they run out of money before the Pre was released...?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Thanks, thats useful.

The main problem appears to be :



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/technology/companies/24palm.html

My bold.

My thoughts are that they've had six months to plan for this and have have been shown how this works by Apple. (And they are supposed to have Apple devs...) Why are they taking their time...? Did they run out of money before the Pre was released...?

They've had longer than six months; they must have been working on the Pre for at least a year, they know about the Apple app store for about the same amount of time if not longer, what on earth are Palm playing at?

 

[editor]

Palm have just come up with a brand new OS and a brand new phone. They already have an app store up and running - something that Apple couldn't manage for a year after the launch of the iPhone - and a huge amount of work is going into progressing the platform.

Expecting them to roll out a complete package to the same standard of a well established rival twenty times their size strikes me as a bit naive. It took Apple a long time to offer the absolute basics of a smartphone (three versions before MMS!) so clearly compromises have to be made on a handset's evolution. I'd say Palm is on track.

 

[jæd]

Palm have just come up with a brand new OS and a brand new phone. They already have an app store up and running - something that Apple couldn't manage for a year after the launch of the iPhone - and a huge amount of work is going into progressing the platform.

Expecting them to roll out a complete package to the same standard of a well established rival twenty times their size strikes me as a bit naive. It took Apple a long time to offer the absolute basics of a smartphone (three versions before MMS!) so clearly compromises have to be made on a handset's evolution. I'd say Palm is on track.

That doesn't really cut it for me... Apple had to come up with the whole concept from more or less scratch. Palm not only have had long experience of selling applications on-line, but had a model to aim for. And Apple and Android are both interesting case-studies...

I understand why the SDK is delayed (since there were probably last minute changes to the o/s, etc...) but to still be working on the App Store might be their undoing...

 

[editor]

That doesn't really cut it for me... Apple had to come up with the whole concept from more or less scratch. Palm not only have had long experience of selling applications on-line, but had a model to aim for. And Apple and Android are both interesting case-studies...

Android - backed by the might of Google - was released in October 2008 and didn't support paid apps until the middle of Feb 2009.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Might we see it on other devices? I've got to say it strikes me as interesting platform and by the time my contract expires it should have matured, with hopefully more devices.

From Engadget

Palm had its quarterly results conference call yesterday and although CEO Jon Rubinstein and CFO Doug Jeffries kept a pretty tight lid on the future product talk, they did say that licensing webOS to third parties isn't "a religious issue for us." That's pretty vague, sure, but we can't help but immediately think back to the golden age of Palm OS, when licensees like Sony put out amazing devices like the Clie PEG-NZ90 that we've lovingly mocked up with a webOS screenshot above -- we're sure Palm's upcoming handsets will be interesting in their own right, but we'd love to see a manufacturer like HTC riff on webOS the way it's tweaking Android. Of course, Jeffries also said Palm has "no plans at this time to even talk about" licensing, so this is all just a pipe dream for now, but let's not ruin the moment, okay? Hit the read link for the full call transcript.

Complete with a mockup

 

[editor]

Decent sales are being predicted for the Pre:

A market analyst says Sprint has probably sold 150,000 Palm Pre's since this smartphone debuted early this month. But that's just a drop in the bucket for analyst's predictions for the future.

At this point, sales are still being held down by the Palm's inability to meet demand. This is something these companies warned would be the case after the launch, and Palm isn't expected to be able to keep up with demand until late next month.

RBC analyst Mark Abramsky is the one who announced the 150,000 figure, and he says this company will likely sell 4.1 million webOS-based smartphones in the next 12 months, and 6.5 million in the following year.

http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=15382&news=Palm+Pre+Sprint

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Might we see it on other devices? I've got to say it strikes me as interesting platform and by the time my contract expires it should have matured, with hopefully more devices.

From Engadget



Complete with a mockup

Well I hope he's being vague because they have a plan to aggressively push licensing the OS out. It'd be a real disappointment if they didn't tbh...

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Maybe. I can't see apple ever licensing out osx, but I doubt they will suffer. If Palm do I can't see them doing it for a while yet, they need to iron out the bugs first.

I hope the Pre is just one of a family of devices though, webOS sounds a cool concept, but hardware wise I've been spoilt by my Touch HD.

 

[editor]

The Sony Palm OS devices were awesome.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Maybe. I can't see apple ever licensing out osx, but I doubt they will suffer. If Palm do I can't see them doing it for a while yet, they need to iron out the bugs first.

I hope the Pre is just one of a family of devices though, webOS sounds a cool concept, but hardware wise I've been spoilt by my Touch HD.

I hope they do, I want Palm to be a huge success along with Google's Android because it will mean better smartphones.

The Sony Palm OS devices were awesome.

Never had one but had a good look with a couple of friends that used to swear by them, very nearly bought one but they ceased supporting/making them by the time I needed a PDA...

 

[editor]

Never had one but had a good look with a couple of friends that used to swear by them, very nearly bought one but they ceased supporting/making them by the time I needed a PDA...

The Sony Palm OS devices were excellent - and way ahead of their time. I had two of them and loved 'em.

Elsewhere, it looks like the SDK is being really opened up now:

Rumor: We’re hearing lots of reports of people being welcomed to the Palm Mojo SDK early access program today. Perhaps this means that the grand expansion of the program Palm said wasn’t happening till the end of the Summer has been accelerated due to the amount of phones being sold and the demand for new applications. Or maybe the people we’re hearing from are just lucky.

This was sent in by a tipster who claims that it’s part of the official welcome email from the Palm Developer Program:

Welcome to the Palm® Mojo™ SDK early access program! We have approved your application, and you are now able to sign on, download the SDK and start coding.

Access to the SDK and any of the information in the prerelease portal is covered by an agreement you will need to approve the first time you log onto the system. The early access program is private and the material in the SDK is considered confidential. Until we’re done developing the SDK, we will not be releasing or discussing its contents publicly. You will have access to discussion forums on the developer portal and will be able to interact with other members of the program there, but as a condition of your participation in the program, we expect that you will keep the material in the SDK and the information you learn through the program confidential.
PalmGoon