Palm: Pre, webOS & app discussion

[Sunray]

I think better in this context is very hard to quantify.

I would reserve judgement on that till I had one in my hand.

 

[editor]

I think better in this context is very hard to quantify.

I would reserve judgement on that till I had one in my hand.

I think being able to flick through pages without having to touch the screen every time is smart, and the 'flick' card paradigm is box fresh good.

I'm not saying that it's better than the iPhone, but I do think the Palm's UI is the best out there now.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

It takes a little learning for sure, but once learnt it looks a lot better than the iPhone's UI.

If you have to 'learn' how to use a phone there's a failure of design going on somewhere isn't there?

 

[paolo]

If you have to 'learn' how to use a phone there's a failure of design going on somewhere isn't there?

I've not used a Pre so I can't comment on the specifics, however I think it's fair to say that once in a while there's a new paradigm that justifies a change in thinking that users have to adapt to.

When you put someone in front of a Mac back in '84 they wouldn't know what a close box was, a scroll bar, none of those things. The unfamiliarity didn't make it wrong though. Quite the opposite.

 

[editor]

If you have to 'learn' how to use a phone there's a failure of design going on somewhere isn't there?

You mean like you don't have to learn how to use a computer, a car, a camera, an MP3 player, software etc? Oh, hang on....

Even the humble mouse baffled people at first.

 

[editor]

Now this is terrific news:

Palm Pre owners making the jump from the iPhone, or anyone looking to get more organizational synchronization going, take note: Evernote has quietly dropped an official client in the Pre's App Catalog for download.

Adding text notes and pictures from your Pre's camera or photo roll are the two big features in this client, but the Palm's multi-tasking "cards" also allows for having multiple notes open at once. While a search box isn't apparent from the home screen, just start typing with the keyboard and you'll see note results as you type. No audio recording or file uploads at the moment, but that could be coming in a future update.

This suggests that there's a whole load of apps for the Pre coming our way soon.

 

[Sunray]

I think being able to flick through pages without having to touch the screen every time is smart, and the 'flick' card paradigm is box fresh good.

I'm not saying that it's better than the iPhone, but I do think the Palm's UI is the best out there now.

That sentence is a contradiction.

I do think that its splitting hairs. The iPhone UI is very simple. They make a use of a lot of text on buttons which I feel is one of their master strokes. Icons have been show to be deficient because you can't easily depict abstract concepts like Paste in a small icon. If you can fit it on the button, write what that button does in text.

If you look at the iPhone this philosophy has been take to quite some length. Its not free of icons, but its not got many.

While Palm have noticed this, they haven't really taken it on board like Apple have

Case in point. As you can see, text and icons. I know which is more obvious.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

You mean like you don't have to learn how to use a computer, a car, a camera, an MP3 player, software etc? Oh, hang on....

Even the humble mouse baffled people at first.

Me personally it's not an issue but for your average punter...?

 

[editor]

Me personally it's not an issue but for your average punter...?

Nokia sell phones by the crateload and they've got one of the worst and most baffling UIs known to man.

 

[editor]

This is what I call a good UI:

Palm did its best to bring together as many kinds of data as it could. Displaying email, calendar, and address book information from different sources all together is a no-brainer, but that's just part of it.

Instant messaging is a good example. This combines conversations from different IM services, and regular text messages, too. It doesn't matter if a friend is texting you or chatting over IM, all your messages from this person are threaded together.

You can reply to any of the different sources in the appropriate way, too. If you're having a discussion via AIM and the person you're talking to shuts down their PC, you can switch to sending SMS messages from within the same application, just by picking it from a drop-down box.

Any notifications that your friends are signed in to an IM service are in the address book and in the email app.

http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=15317&news=Palm+Pre+Synergy+webOS

 

[UnderOpenSky]

That is quite very cool.

 

[Sunray]

At your end, potentially weirding out who ever your talking to!

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Nokia sell phones by the crateload and they've got one of the worst and most baffling UIs known to man.

Branding helps though doesn't it? People have been using them for years. Basically if a punter goes into a shop and has a quick play with a iPhone then a Pre which do you think they're instantly going to like and understand?

 

[editor]

Branding helps though doesn't it? People have been using them for years. Basically if a punter goes into a shop and has a quick play with a iPhone then a Pre which do you think they're instantly going to like and understand?

Apple sure managed to get people into the concept of using an onscreen keyboard instead of a familiar QWERTY hardware one and there were 'nuff people who found that hard at first.

 

[Sunray]

I'm looking forward to getting to have a go at one of these at some point. Given that they only managed to get 200k into shops in the US, its not looking good for UK delivery. I'm assuming they can ramp production up, its not like they don't know how to, they make other phones.

 

[editor]

I'm looking forward to getting to have a go at one of these at some point. Given that they only managed to get 200k into shops in the US, its not looking good for UK delivery. I'm assuming they can ramp production up, its not like they don't know how to, they make other phones.

They haven't really launched it properly in the States yet - it's had hardly any promotion to date, but they must be well chuffed with the sales.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Good news that Palm have seen sense are now downplaying other Web os devices until the Pre proves itself sales wise. It was never a wise strategy to make people buying the Pre feel something else might be coming a few months down the line...

 

[Sunray]

I suppose the version they have released is a special version for the cosy up to Sprint because precious few networks run EVDO. Sort of a pre release. Who in their right mind would buy a phone that can only be used in the US with varying degrees of success? Fortunately for Palm only 10% of the US have a passport.

The GSM version is the big one because when that launches it can be used worldwide.

 

[editor]

Palm have always been much, much bigger in the US than anywhere else. You go the States and you'll see Centros and Treos everywhere, whereas they're both rare over here.

 

[mack]

Fortunately for Palm only 10% of the US have a passport.

That explains a lot.

 

[editor]

Spot the difference between Apple and Palm's approach to hackers:

Palm caution hackers over Pre tethering: Sprint might get mad

Palm have cautioned one group of webOS hackers regarding opening up the Pre to unofficial tethering, not because they don’t wish their platform to be modified but as it might anger Sprint. The team behind the Pre Dev Wiki were “politely cautioned” by the manufacturer that discussing ways to enable tethering on the smartphone might prompt Sprint to pressure Palm into shutting down the project.

However, it seems that Palm are content for the team – and others – to continue tinkering with other areas of webOS, perhaps because they recognize that Apple’s iPhone ascendancy was helped in no small part by the fan community’s moves to hack it. Tethering marks the main overlap between the dev project and Sprint, with the carrier excluding using the Pre as a modem for your laptop under the ToS for its data packages.

“We have been politely cautioned by Palm that any discussion of tethering during the Sprint exclusivity period (and perhaps beyond-we don’t know yet) will probably cause Sprint to complain to Palm, and if that happened then Palm would be forced to react against the people running the IRC channel and this wiki.”

It seems likely that other groups of people will continue to attempt to enable tethering on the Pre, but its general availability may be forced to wait until an unlocked GSM Pre is released. If Sprint do launch a tethering plan – which they currently say there’s no intention of doing – it’s likely to be an expensive addition rather than fall under the “unlimited” (in reality 5GB) inclusive data.

http://mypre.com/palm-caution-hackers-over-pre-tethering-sprint-might-get-mad-2009151939/

 

[editor]

Engadget have tried to spin it, but the developer who received the email from Palm explains:

I was the person who received that message from Palm. They have been extremely friendly to the hacking scene thus so far. Gizmodo has blown it out of proportion. WebOS updates are only required because Palm doesn't want the maintain old infrastructure necessary to keep old versions of the OS running. Tethering directly breaks the AUP/ToS, and Sprint obviously doesn't want that. Palm has to keep Sprint happy.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/15/palm-webos-system-upgrades-mandatory-hacking-scene-forbidden-fr/

Edit: tethering is go already!
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/15/pre-data-tethering-is-a-go-sprint-be-damned/

 

[editor]

Hello... the latest rumour is that the Pre will be hitting eastern Europe in September ($550 contract free), so presumably we'll get it before that.

http://www.prethinking.com/home/200...g-to-the-european-markets-this-september.html

 

[Sunray]

Hello... the latest rumour is that the Pre will be hitting eastern Europe in September ($550 contract free), so presumably we'll get it before that.

http://www.prethinking.com/home/200...g-to-the-european-markets-this-september.html

Thats site has the stupidest poill ever. Palm Pre v iPhone on a Palm Pre site.

Must remember to bookmark it on my iPhone.

 

[editor]

Thats site has the stupidest poill ever. Palm Pre v iPhone on a Palm Pre site.

You'll find similar ones on iPhone sites.

In fact, this one did an entire feature on it - and wasn't as biased as you might think. http://iphonehelp.in/2009/05/31/palm-pre-vs-the-apple-iphone-3g-final-preview/

 

[jæd]

Thats site has the stupidest poill ever. Palm Pre v iPhone on a Palm Pre site.

Must remember to bookmark it on my iPhone.

Anyone who thinks Internet polls are accurate or representative is a muppet...

 

[editor]

Considering there aren't many apps available, this is a mighty impressive figure:

Close to 700,000 Palm Pre apps downloaded to date
There may not be a ton of Pre apps available just yet, but it looks like there's enough to accumulate an impressive 666,511 downloads as of June 17th, which likely means that we're close to or past the 700,000 mark by now. As you can see above in graph form courtesy of Medialets, things have been rising steadily as more and more apps became available, and there's no noticeable sign of a drop-off even as apps remained around the 30 mark after the end of the first week. Of course, it's obviously still a little early to draw any firm conclusions, and there's no telling how things could shake out once the long-awaited PreFart and PreBeer apps make their debut.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/20/close-to-700-000-palm-pre-apps-downloaded-to-date/

There's an excellent and hugely in-depth review of the Palm Pre here, which does a good job of highlighting the phones weaknesses and strengths compared to the iPhone.

The big surprise for me was battery life. I thought the iPhone would trounce the Pre, but they're very similar. The reviewer notes that the build quality is much better on the iPhone, but there are some compelling features on the Pre:

Augmenting that powerful combination, Palm did a tremendous job in bringing brand new features to the table. Shame on Nokia, Motorola and the established cell phone industry for failing to do what it took Palm two years to do.

The Pre’s multitasking is one area where Palm completely trumped Apple. There are tradeoffs that Palm made but the Pre is just so much more productive (perhaps more for chatting than actual work) because of its multitasking support. There’s absolutely no reason for Apple not to embrace something similar. I’m guessing we won’t see real multitasking from Apple until iPhone OS 4.0, but there’s a lot of catch up that Apple needs to do here. If Apple had been working on multitasking since before the Pre announcement, we’ll easily see it supported in the iPhone next year. If Apple didn’t start on multitasking support until after Palm’s CES keynote, we won’t see it until 2011. Without a doubt this is a clear advantage for Palm.

Synergy is also another tremendous win for Palm that should’ve been implemented long ago by every other mobile phone manufacturer. The days of plugging your smartphone into your Mac or PC to sync it are numbered. Your friends manage their contact information in the cloud, so why not pull from their updates rather than manually manage it all on your own? It’s brilliant.

There are a few rough edges with the Pre but honestly, I have more faith in Palm to make the Pre perfect than I do in Apple to embrace the Pre’s advantages (at least in a timely manner). Look at how long it took Apple to enable Cut and Paste support on the iPhone.

...Bring me a Pre that fixes Synergy, improves performance, has iPhone-like materials/build quality, full search, full copy/paste, visual voicemail and a more mature app store and I’ll leave Apple. Until then, personally, I’ll keep a close eye on the Pre because Palm totally gets it. This is what a smartphone is supposed to be and we finally, two years after the iPhone’s release, have a real competitor both in hardware and in OS.

If you don’t want to deal with AT&T, if you need a physical keyboard or if you just want to root for the underdog - the Palm Pre is for you. If you’re on Sprint, the Pre is easily the best smartphone the network has to offer. The Pre is the embodiment of innovation and I can’t stress how important it is to support companies like that.

How Palm behaves over the next six months will truly determine how positively we should all view the company. If the Pre gets regular updates, fixing issues and expanding features then we have a real winner here folks.

 

[editor]

This is why the Palm webOS is worth supporting:

Want to Jailbreak the Pre? No Worries, Palm Says

The Palm Pre's Mojo SDK still isn't available to the public, and coders are champing at the bit. They're so eager to program for the Pre that some folks have hacked into their Pres and are beginning to create the same sort of "jailbroken" community we've seen for years on the iPhone.

Palm today made their SDK schedule clearer, and sent a surprisingly mild message out to rogue programmers. The SDK will become available "by the end of this summer," Palm says, and they'll ramp up their 'early access program' as quickly as they can before that.

I was struck, though, by how conciliatory they are towards the Pre hackers. Instead of slapping them down, Palm is just saying that Mojo-based projects will be better than hacks.

"We recognize that some developers will experiment in ways that cross official boundaries, but we believe that our formal offerings - and community efforts built around those offerings - will provide the best experience for the vast majority of webOS developers and users," the company says.

That displays an admirably open attitude towards independent developers and hackers that I hope Palm will continue with.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2349113,00.asp

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Great news. The more succesfull they are the more likely others will follow suit thus putting pressure on Apple who will in turn make a superior product even better!

 

[editor]

Great news. The more succesfull they are the more likely others will follow suit thus putting pressure on Apple who will in turn make a superior product even better!

Well, you can always dream, I guess.

This is interesting (albeit not too scientific):

Palm Pre beats iPhone 3G S in 2 out of 3 speed tests by CNET

In a special episode of CNET Prizefight, Briant Tong, Bonnie Cha, and Nicole Lee pit the iPhone 3G S against the Palm Pre in three speed tests: boot up time, loading a Web page, and taking and sending a photo. They also included the second-gen iPhone in the tests for further comparison.

Watch the six-minute video to see the Palm Pre win two out of the three tests. Keep in mind that this is a non-scientific test that takes place in the CNET studios in San Francisco, a city where the iPhone suffers from widely-reported network problems. Nevertheless, the Pre showed very impressive performance and the iPhone 3G S showed solid improvement over its previous generation hardware.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=20065