Palm: Pre, webOS & app discussion

[paolo]

They're bleeding money, have no real hope to survive other than the Pre to be a success...

As long as the tech isn't fundamentally flawed (and no reason to believe it is), someone would pick up the remains. Dell, HP, whoever. The Pre & WebOS will survive even if Palm don't.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

As long as the tech isn't fundamentally flawed (and no reason to believe it is), someone would pick up the remains. Dell, HP, whoever. The Pre & WebOS will survive even if Palm don't.

How many companies have the cash reserves to make any of Palm in this current economic climate?

 

[paolo]

How many companies have the cash reserves to make any of Palm in this current economic climate?

Depends on how far the stock falls. Wouldn't have to be a company either - could even be private equity.

One way or another someone would pick it up at some point. Not many quick routes in to that market!

 

[editor]

The Pre's still garnering a lot of press attention. Business Week have just written a substantial and very positive three page article on the handset and the firm's prospects.

As recently as late 2008, Pandora Networks' Chief Technology Officer Tom Conrad still had big doubts about the prospects for smartphone maker Palm. In November, Conrad was among a coterie of software developers invited to Palm (PALM) headquarters in Sunnyvale, Calif., to take an early, up-close look at an operating system for use in the company's phones. "I was totally skeptical when I walked in," says Conrad, who met Palm execs along with representatives of MySpace (NWS), Intuit (INTU), movie site Fandango, and Epocrates, a maker of mobile software for physicians.

...Conrad still had a fondness for Palm products and figured the brand still had cachet with consumers. "If by some miracle they had come up with something special, I knew there would be a market for them," he remembers thinking. And Palm delivered. After two days of briefings about its WebOS software, "I left a total believer."

This is rather interesting:

Normally, developers flock to devices with the most market share. But many developers contacted by BusinessWeek say they would rather write for Palm than other platforms such as Microsoft (MSFT) Windows and in some cases, Google's (GOOG) Android. "From my point of view, Palm is No. 2," says Ge Wang, co-founder of Smule, a maker of popular iPhone apps.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2009/tc20090323_446801.htm

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Dell buy of Palm would make sense, say analysts

As long as the tech isn't fundamentally flawed (and no reason to believe it is), someone would pick up the remains. Dell, HP, whoever. The Pre & WebOS will survive even if Palm don't.

Looks like you might be on to something.

Whether a deal by Dell Inc. to buy Palm Inc. is truly in the offing, it would make sense for both companies, three analysts said Monday.


Still, at least one additional analyst said the time has already passed for such a deal, which was first rumored at least two years ago.


Neither company could be reached to comment on a recent Dow Jones report that summarized many of the market conditions making a merger seem likely. The report included comments by Shaw Wu, a financial analyst for Kaufman Bros. who said Palm could be the target that would allow Dell to get into the smartphone market.


Financial strategy consultant Sramana Mitra also recently laid out factors that favor a union, noting that Palm needs to take on Apple Inc., maker of the iPhone. "Palm cannot take on Apple on its own, and a Palm-Dell union would change the equation dramatically," she wrote on the financial news site Seeking Alpha.

Dell apparently has 9 billion in cash reserves and wants to get into the smartphone market. Palm having a great product and new OS but going down the pan might be a good buy for them if they've that kind of cash floating about...

 

[paolo]

Palm will need to keep their stock price vaguely stable and not get to the point where shareholders lose their bottle (i.e. wide open to a hostile bid).

The good news - if my speculative scenario happens - is that there won't really a big difference to the consumer. The tech will hit the streets, it just might have a different badge on it if the cash scenario gets tricky. In fact, in Europe at least, Dell probably has better brand recognition, so a takeover could be a boost.

 

[editor]

Looks like there's still plenty of consumer interest in the Pre:

Is there still enthusiasm for the forthcoming Palm Pre, facing a growing field of rival smartphones and stingy consumer budgets? Yes, according to a new analysis by Web measurement service Compete.

Despite the weak economy, little advertising and no confirmed release date, data suggests the device hasn't disappeared from consumers' minds. Since Palm announced it would release a new smartphone at the Consumer Electronics Show in January, traffic to informational pages on Palm.com and wireless carrier Sprint.com indicates that people are still intrigued by the Pre.

Unique visitors to Pre pages have hovered around 100,00 for the last seven weeks after hitting a peak of 400,000 at CES, according to Compete. The traffic has remained steady, although neither Palm or Sprint has consistently featured the Pre on their respective sites.
To further gauge consumer interest in the Pre, Compete compared traffic to its informational pages to those of the gold standard of smartphone buzz -- the iPhone. Looking at traffic to Apple.com and ATT.com around the launch of the original iPhone in January 2007, Compete found higher levels (a peak of 600,000 visitors to Apple.com) but a similar pattern.

"Although the numbers were higher for the iPhone than the Pre, the Pre's numbers are fairly strong in comparison, especially when you factor in how much buzz surrounded Apple's first foray into a smartphone market that was much less crowded in early 2007," wrote Compete's Eleanor Baird, in a post Tuesday...
http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=102815

 

[editor]

They're bleeding money, have no real hope to survive other than the Pre to be a success...

They are, but Wall Street remains convinced they're on to a winner.

Palm shares jump as investors ignore losses
All eyes remain on launch of Pre smart phone later this year

Palm Inc.'s share prices jumped Friday as investors ignored lower-than-expected sales and a deep net loss for its third fiscal quarter, choosing instead to focus on the upcoming launch of the Pre smart phone later this year.

In early trading, Palm moved up as much as 9% to $8.42, though trading cooled somewhat by midday. The stock has soared by nearly 150% since the company first lifted the wraps on the Pre at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in early January. The device is expected to launch on the market by June 30.

Anticipation for the device has largely allowed Palm to get a pass on its financial results, at least until the launch.

"Difficult quarter. So what? It's all about Pre," was the title of a note by RBC Capital Markets following the report. Analyst Mike Abramsky said Palm's management "appears laser focused" on positioning the company for a leadership position in the smart-phone market.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/story.aspx?guid={32ce40d2-764d-4e42-90bf-0ad9a5104237}

 

[Sunray]

A loss is where you spending money without hope of getting it back.

An investment is where you are spending money with a very high probability of getting more back.

 

[Structaural]

I heard Dell might buy Palm. Talk about killing your brand

It's the only way Dell will get into the market though:

dells_iphone_killer_rejected_by_carriers_as_too_dulll

 

[editor]

Tease, tease, tease...

That Pre Sure Got Some Powerful Magic, Boy…

It has not yet been given a price or a release date, but Palm’s forthcoming Pre handset continues to have a remarkably restorative effect on the company’s share price. It wasn’t so long ago that Palm shares were trading just above a dollar. Today, they’re hovering around $8.67, bouyed up by little more than the device’s Consumer Electronics Show debut, an uneventful media Webcast, some hyperbolic remarks from one of the company’s investors and the enthusiasm of a few bullish analysts.

Among them, Deutsche Bank’s Chris Whitmore and Jonathan Goldberg, who boosted their price target on Palm (PALM) to $12 from $10 today claiming that Palm will not only ship the device on schedule, but will follow it up with other form factors. “Since their earnings release last week, we have conducted a round of checks on Palm and remain confident in the potential for their new Pre smartphone to turnaround the company’s results,” the two wrote in a note.

“The Pre timetable seems on track at least, and both carrier and developer interest remains high….We also confirmed earlier checks and vague hints on their recent call that the company is working on other form factors which we could see in the market sooner than expected.”

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20090325/that-pre-sure-got-some-powerful-magic-boy/

 

[Sunray]

Be nice to see a slimmer touch screen only version. I'm really not convinced by that keyboard.

 

[editor]

Be nice to see a slimmer touch screen only version. I'm really not convinced by that keyboard.

It'll be better than the iPhone's.

It's bigger than the one on the Centro and I have no problems with that, and almost anything's got to be better than touching a lifeless piece of flat glass, IMO.

 

[Sunray]

It'll be better than the iPhone's.

It's bigger than the one on the Centro and I have no problems with that, and almost anything's got to be better than touching a lifeless piece of flat glass, IMO.

After many months of use I am very happy with not having to physically press anything. I don't have to hold the device with any force when I am using it and I can really go much faster because of that.

 

[editor]

After many months of use I am very happy with not having to physically press anything. I don't have to hold the device with any force when I am using it and I can really go much faster because of that.

Each to their own of course, but there's a reason why virtual keyboards on laptops and desktops have never caught on and why Blackberrys are so popular with heavy email users.

 

[Sunray]

Each to their own of course, but there's a reason why virtual keyboards on laptops and desktops have never caught on and why Blackberrys are so popular with heavy email users.

The blackberry keyboard is very good. I've had a go on that and its a nice size. That Pre keyboard I think is pushing it, its just too diddy for me.

Watch people use it. Its clearly not comfortable.

I'll give you a race when its released, I bet I can beat you one fingered on my iphone with the correction off.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

This is why I like "landscape" slide out keyboards, they just have a bit more room and are thus much easier to use...

 

[editor]

That Pre keyboard I think is pushing it, its just too diddy for me.

You've never even touched the Pre, so I'm not sure how you declare it to be inferior to the iPhone's virtual keyboard.

The iPhone keypad might be fine for short messages, but it's just plain uncomfortable bashing away at flat, untactile glass for long.

 

[Crispy]

don't bash, a light touch is all that's needed

 

[editor]

don't bash, a light touch is all that's needed

It's still an uncomfortable way to write anything over a short message or two. That's why keyboards have proper tactile feedback, innit? Besides, some people prefer to bash.

 

[Piers Gibbon]

it's funny..my head says that surely flat glass screens are the way forward (no moving parts) but typing just feels so much better on real keys, for me/for now

 

[Sunray]

It's still an uncomfortable way to write anything over a short message or two. That's why keyboards have proper tactile feedback, innit? Besides, some people prefer to bash.

Experience over the last 8 months tells me different. The very same could be said having to press those tiny keys. There is no room for error either, its that key or your wrong. On a virtual one there is room for error as it works out the most likely button due to area covered and position.

I'm happy to write long messages without a second thought, its neither hard or tiresome.

 

[paolo]

I posted on urban for six months from my iPhone. You won't see any shortening of posts because of that. It's fine.

And it's important to note that a mini hardware set of QWERTY clicky buttons is very very different to a PC Keyboard. To think of them as having the same qualities is, well, wrong.

As I've said before, you can tap at the glass. You tap on a PC keyboard. You *press* on the mini buttons. I don't like the pressing buttons thing personally.

There's a reason PC keyboards don't have clicky pressy keys

 

[jæd]

Each to their own of course, but there's a reason why virtual keyboards on laptops and desktops have never caught on and why Blackberrys are so popular with heavy email users.

Probably because there haven't been any decent multi-touch virtual keyboards around. Touch keyboards on a desktop would be a bit daft, although the HP Touchsmart is quite cool...

Experience over the last 8 months tells me different. The very same could be said having to press those tiny keys. There is no room for error either, its that key or your wrong. On a virtual one there is room for error as it works out the most likely button due to area covered and position.

I'm happy to write long messages without a second thought, its neither hard or tiresome.

Right at the moment the only thing that limits the length of messages on my iPhone is the itty-bitty screen size... Each to their own...!

 

[editor]

it's funny..my head says that surely flat glass screens are the way forward (no moving parts) but typing just feels so much better on real keys, for me/for now

It's the same for most people, and that's something that's been backed up by independent research. Funnily enough, the only people I've ever heard insist that the iPhone keyboard is in fact superior to a hard-key QWERTY phone are ...iPhone fans.

iPhone and Hard-Key QWERTY Texting Was Equally Rapid, but iPhone Owners Made More Errors
When compared to hard-key QWERTY phone owners using their personal phones, iPhone owners' rate of text entry on the iPhone was equally rapid. However, iPhone owners made more errors during text entry and also left significantly more errors in the completed messages.

While iPhone owners made an average of 5.6 errors/message on their own phone, hard-key QWERTY owners made an average of 2.1 errors/message on their own phone, p < .01. iPhone owners also left an average of 2.6 errors/completed message created on the iPhone compared to an average of 0.8 errors/completed message left by hard-key QWERTY phone owners on their own phone.

"Despite the correction features available on the iPhone, this data suggests that people who have owned it for a month are still making about the same number of errors as the day they got it," says Gavin Lew, Managing Director.

iPhone May Not be Suitable for Heavy Text Use
Compared to hard-key QWERTY devices, the iPhone may fall short for consumers who use on their mobile device heavily for email and text messaging. The iPhone was clearly associated with higher text entry error rates than a hard-key QWERTY phone. The finding that iPhone owners made more texting errors on iPhones than their hard-key QWERTY counterparts (on their own QWERTY phones) suggests that the iPhone may have a higher fundamental error rate. Specifically, the high rate of false alarms for iPhone keys adjacent to high frequency letters is troubling. The iPhone's predictive and corrective text features do alleviate some of the errors users make while texting, but it does not catch them all.

http://www.usercentric.com/about/news_item.php?m_id=4&s_id=4&id=15

The very same could be said having to press those tiny keys. There is no room for error either, its that key or your wrong. On a virtual one there is room for error as it works out the most likely button due to area covered and position..

That doesn't make any sense. A hardware keyboard is far more accurate (see link above).

 

[Crispy]

Meh. I've got no real complaints about the iPod touch keyboard. I post on urban all the time and I rarely have to go back and correct mistakes. It certainly makes the device less bulky. If the Pre turns out to be as good as it promises to be, I may well get one. But I would rather have a slimmer device with a touch keyboard, as long as it's as good as the apple one. This post typed on my iPod and there's no discomfort and I've only had to go back for two mistakes.

 

[editor]

This post typed on my iPod and there's no discomfort and I've only had to go back for two mistakes.

I think the iPhone keyboard is absolutely fine for short messages and emails, and certainly better than predictive text numeric keypads.

But, like I've been saying all along, a flat, non-tactile glass virtual screen simply can't match a proper hardware keyboard for any kind of sustained use - and all the research I've seen backs that up.

If you're only likely to be knocking out short emails, then I'm sure the iPhone keyboard will be fine for most users, but I'd never recommend them for anyone - like me - who is sometimes called upon to write lengthier articles on their handsets (I've written 500+ word live launch reports on my Centro).

 

[Lazy Llama]

That TealOS (webOS copy) interface/skin for older Palms really is superb. The real thing is going to be awesome!

Looks like Palm didn't like it, as they've requested it be removed and from Monday TealOS will no longer be available.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/27/palm-issues-takedown-for-tealos/

I guess they have to protect their IP, even if it hurts their own customers.

 

[editor]

Looks like Palm didn't like it, as they've requested it be removed and from Monday TealOS will no longer be available.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/27/palm-issues-takedown-for-tealos/

I guess they have to protect their IP, even if it hurts their own customers.

I'm amazed Palm let them get away with it for so long, to be honest, so good on 'em.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Bit Apple like though aint it..?