Old shop front revealed on Atlantic Road

[ska invita]

Great to see how excited people were by TVs - crowding round the shop window.

 

[lang rabbie]

They knocked down all but the facade - spruced it up and built the business centre behind (and towering above) - early 90's if I remember right. It had been derelict for as long as I can remember. Definitely no synagogic action through the eighties. I have some photos somewhere but they're too far from the sofa...

I didn't think Brixton Synagogue closed until 1985 when it merged with the Streatham Synagogue (or was it just the formal merger of the congregations that took place that late and they had been using the Streatham building earlier?)

 

[Bel]

Quite a few moved "further south", to Streatham (hence my old synagogue on Prentis Rd), Thornton Heath and Croydon from the 1930s onwards, not least because of the Mosleyites. Back when my great-grandmother came here, and lived in Fulham, Brixton was where a lot of business-minded and/or professional south London Jews aspired to live, but as Brixton became more densely-populated, so the conditions for anti-Semitism were exacerbated (with there being an unfortunate number of slum properties owned by Jewish landlords well into the 1950s) and Mosley's thugs were pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back.

I've got a vague memory that my (north london jewish) dad told me that the term for Railton Road, "The Front Line" originated with with Mosely's Black Shirts and Communists waging running battles down there.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've got a vague memory that my (north london jewish) dad told me that the term for Railton Road, "The Front Line" originated with with Mosely's Black Shirts and Communists waging running battles down there.

Yep, apparently it used to get pretty hairy.

 

[Pip]

Sorry to stray into etymology, but does the term frontline meaning place where you can buy drugs come from Brixton then?

 

[Bel]

Sorry to stray into etymology, but does the term frontline meaning place where you can buy drugs come from Brixton then?

I wasn't aware of any other frontlines where they sell drugs, but if they exist I'd have thought they've added another layer to Brixton term.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Front line (stress on second word) in terms of say, Cable Street comes from military parlance. The other sense of front line (stress on first word) is West Indian and means, where everything's happening (not originally a drug term, more best area to hang out).

 

[Pip]

So battles on Railton Road, drug dealers later on, and it being referred to as the frontline is sort of a coincidence?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Yes.

 

[lang rabbie]

Front line (stress on second word) in terms of say, Cable Street comes from military parlance. The other sense of front line (stress on first word) is West Indian and means, where everything's happening (not originally a drug term, more best area to hang out).

That sounds impressively plausible - but where does the West Indian usage come from?

I call your bluff!

 

[Pip]

I've had this in my head all day thanks to this thread

 

[teuchter]

Front line (stress on second word) in terms of say, Cable Street comes from military parlance.

If I say it with the stress on the second word it sounds all wrong.

I reckon in military parlance (frontline troops etc) you'd say in with stress on "front".

Not that I am exactly a military kind of person.

 

[mauvais]

Mrs. M is right. Frontline, as in frontline defence.

 

[teuchter]

Mrs. M is right. Frontline, as in frontline defence.

Maybe the front line as a noun.

But frontline defence as an adjective.

Anyway I've said it to myself too many times and it all sounds stupid now.

 

[Pip]

My heaaart's open sooo wide.

 

[pesh]

she was waltzing down the frontline, she was wearing no shoes...

i'm glad this is still up

i grew up in clapham as had my mum and hers and can remember as a very young child pointing at it and asking my mum if it was someone from our family that owned it.
she said no and that we only had 1 E.

 

[Pip]

Where's that?

 

[pesh]

opposite the paddling pool by clapham common tube

 

[Pip]

I think I know where you mean.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If I say it with the stress on the second word it sounds all wrong.

I reckon in military parlance (frontline troops etc) you'd say in with stress on "front".

Not that I am exactly a military kind of person.

No, you'd stress the second word, because "front", militarily, needs to be qualified. You could mean a "2nd front", "the front" as the topography of the territory your troops currently hold, or a host of other things, so "front-line" indicates "the point of contact/action between opposing forces."

 

[teuchter]

No, you'd stress the second word, because "front", militarily, needs to be qualified. You could mean a "2nd front", "the front" as the topography of the territory your troops currently hold, or a host of other things, so "front-line" indicates "the point of contact/action between opposing forces."

That doesn't make any sense logically because I could also say that "line" needs to be qualified; I could mean various types of line. In this case the front line.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That doesn't make any sense logically because I could also say that "line" needs to be qualified; I could mean various types of line. In this case the front line.

I'm afraid you'll have to take that up with the Warrant Officer who educated me on the issue. If you're lucky he won't bop you on the head as often as he did me while instilling the information.

 

[teuchter]

I'm afraid you'll have to take that up with the Warrant Officer who educated me on the issue. If you're lucky he won't bop you on the head as often as he did me while instilling the information.

Are we talking about how military people speak to one another, or how normal people would speak to each other when discussing matters military?

If it's the former then I can't argue with you.

 

[quimcunx]

They should bring back national service!

 

[Pat24]

wow, i noticed it the other day too..I remember seeing the old picture on this website and I recognised it. Pretty cool.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are we talking about how military people speak to one another, or how normal people would speak to each other when discussing matters military?

The former, as explained by my use of the word "militarily". Given how many of those around during the Mosleyite era (on both sides) had military experience, it's hardly surprising the military usage was utilised to describe Brixton between the wars.

If it's the former then I can't argue with you.

I know.

 

[sp762]

I was going to post a story about another bit of signage history. When I was a kid we use to go to Wilson the bakers on Brixton road. It closed in about the 90s and sometime last year, the shop finally was sold to someone else and they started renovating it. Now underneath was a glass sign for Smidt. ( I think I spelt that right) Some where at this point I noticed a sign on the wall next to the shop for Smidt the bakers. And that made me think whether this was a german family who changed their name to protect business during the war. I had seen a picture from the 20s of Wilson's bakers so i knew the family had been around for a long time. Well, at the archives I looked in directories around the 1920s and earlier and found that in 1915 it was Mrs Amelia Wilson the Baker and in 1912, it was Mrs Amelia Smidt the Baker.... So I will make the leap of faith that it was the same people. The Smidt family opened the bakers in 1891 which does mean that the glass signage which was exposed last year dated between 1891 and 1912... and I think it probably ended up in a skip... (and silly me didn't take a photo)

Sorry to raise the ghost of posts past, but you are absolutely right. Amelia Smidt was my great-great-grandmother and the family name was changed in 1914 after protest action was taken (bricks in windows, apparently.) I wonder if the Saxe-Coburg von Gotha family had the same problems?

I never met her, but did visit the bakery when I was a kid (in the early 1970s) My great grandfather was still alive, but not talkative to children. The old ovens were still in daily use - even if the machinery was slightly more modern.

Regards,

Mike Wilson
Australia

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

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[miss minnie]

Sorry to raise the ghost of posts past, but you are absolutely right. Amelia Smidt was my great-great-grandmother and the family name was changed in 1914 after protest action was taken (bricks in windows, apparently.) I wonder if the Saxe-Coburg von Gotha family had the same problems?

I never met her, but did visit the bakery when I was a kid (in the early 1970s) My great grandfather was still alive, but not talkative to children. The old ovens were still in daily use - even if the machinery was slightly more modern.

Regards,

Mike Wilson
Australia

Welcome to the forums! Don't suppose there are any photos of Smidt/Wilson's?

 

[miss minnie]

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orejrjejwoejejekjwrjjrerijijrjeijijhhrhhh
fojjfrfjrjkjfjfkjfjkgjrkjkjghrjfjrrrfjjgjh
uhfrfkrjfrhfhfhfjffhghjdkfroekforfkffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffh
jderjuhrfeuhfgurhgghruhrjfhhfrhkrujihtrjhfuhrhrthfgtghrt5tjgjghrhghghuhughtthtguhghghthgghhtghghhghhghguhhhhghhhhhhhhhhhjhhhhhh