Obama online team hired to help fight BNP
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Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
yes they're fucked now ha ha 
(not aimed at you editor)
(not aimed at you editor)
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The BNP cannot be beaten by programs like this - even Searchlight have said this themselves. All they're aiming to with this is to raise voter turnout in the euro elections in June (it's forecast to drop back to the normal circa 20% this time, it was around 40% last time due to local elctions across much of the country at the same time and increased use of postal ballots) and hope this swamps the BNP vote (they're likely to gain at least one MEP IMO, and require only small increase).
This, of course, is the tactic that failed to keep a BNP member out of the the GLA assembly last year. To employ it again on a larger scale is actually a recognition that the official antit-racists like Searchlight have no political answer to the problem of the BNP - all they have is technical manouvers that have shown in practice to be unable even to hold the ring.
The people involved in running this and the local HNH campaigns, the public faces (MPs, MEPS etc) are exactly who are driving people away from mainstram poltics and towards the far right. People don't want back slapping rallies with these clowns, they want their local issues and interests taken seriously.
This, of course, is the tactic that failed to keep a BNP member out of the the GLA assembly last year. To employ it again on a larger scale is actually a recognition that the official antit-racists like Searchlight have no political answer to the problem of the BNP - all they have is technical manouvers that have shown in practice to be unable even to hold the ring.
The people involved in running this and the local HNH campaigns, the public faces (MPs, MEPS etc) are exactly who are driving people away from mainstram poltics and towards the far right. People don't want back slapping rallies with these clowns, they want their local issues and interests taken seriously.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
don't disagree with the general thrust of your post Butchers, obviously there is no IT fix for people's sense that the politicians of all mainstream parties aren't listenting to them or their concerns: the political basis for the rise in BNP support:
- but the GLA did show a considerable increase in turnout amongst BME voters, without which it would have been more than Barnbrook elected. In that case, the Searchlight campaign, whilst not an unamiguous success, might have had some limited impact.
This also dovetails with the parties own priorities because in the PR elections, at least MPs and MEPs have to pretend (in their own electoral interests) to give a shit about votes in areas that otherwise "in the bag" for one or other parties at local or Westminster elections. Turnout elections are about getting your core support to the polls. Unlike FPTP ones, where you bank them and try to win over "floating voters".
- but the GLA did show a considerable increase in turnout amongst BME voters, without which it would have been more than Barnbrook elected. In that case, the Searchlight campaign, whilst not an unamiguous success, might have had some limited impact.
This also dovetails with the parties own priorities because in the PR elections, at least MPs and MEPs have to pretend (in their own electoral interests) to give a shit about votes in areas that otherwise "in the bag" for one or other parties at local or Westminster elections. Turnout elections are about getting your core support to the polls. Unlike FPTP ones, where you bank them and try to win over "floating voters".
from another post http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=277975
On the subject of this report
Nick Lowles former memeber of this lot http://www.workersliberty.org/ the left and the bourgeois lifestyle anarchist are no solution for the working class they are the problem, as are the far right..
Until the grass route problems are faced dealt with and talked about, until people stop saying it is racist to talk about issues of immigration race and class then we will not smash the very real pernicious evil of the far right, who in the current circumstance will only flourish this is nothing more than a stunt, something the left have done for years and they ask why there is an underclass a rise in the far right? look in your own backyards you fools.
On the subject of this report
Nick Lowles former memeber of this lot http://www.workersliberty.org/ the left and the bourgeois lifestyle anarchist are no solution for the working class they are the problem, as are the far right..
Until the grass route problems are faced dealt with and talked about, until people stop saying it is racist to talk about issues of immigration race and class then we will not smash the very real pernicious evil of the far right, who in the current circumstance will only flourish this is nothing more than a stunt, something the left have done for years and they ask why there is an underclass a rise in the far right? look in your own backyards you fools.
This is exactly what it's about IMHO. From their position the BNP are fortunate in that they can offer a simple easily marketed answer to difficult issues. There needs to be not only a fight against their message but a credible alternative to it too.
With regards the OP, I don't think this will necessarily do any harm but the difference between this and the Obama campaign is that one was pushing a positive message where as this is ultimately pushing a negative message (don't support the BNP)
Interestingly the BNP website has been very successful IIRC. In 2007 it was at one point the most visited party site in the UK.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think the rise in london turnout can be put down to the percieved closeness of the battle between Livingstone and Johnson myself. I think the HNH/Searchlight campaign had little effect - they seemed to begrudgingly admit this directly afterwards and actually started some honest political debate about why this might be and where they were going wrong, but i'm afraid they've slipped back into the old way of doing things. Obv, there's no way i can prove this is the case though. (or maybe some research has been done on this, i genuinely don't know).
Also, IIRC, even with the lower turnout from the election before last the BNP would not have reached the threshold for a second member -they just scraped the fist one by 8000 votes.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
Am off to a lecture with Thomas Gensemer, who runs BSD, in a couple of weeks, be interesting to see what he has to say for himself at least.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
it's true that Ken had a high degree of support in these communities, yes, and it would be ridiculous to say that it had no effect on turnout. And the GLA vote was lower than the mayoral one I think. But it would be hard to disprove that the HNH campaign had no effect in reminding people that voted in the mayoral contest to also vote in the GLA. Thing is turnout also increased in outer London, and might also have brought extra BNP voters to polls too. Hard to prove I guess.
Many of the sects will be be involved in the HNH campaign including UAF and the dubious Weyman Bennet, obviously no one will know who they are outside of sites like this, but people on the estates will be aware they have been invisible in their areas for many many years, perhaps only coming onto them to shout 'asylum seekers welcome here', while the major parties are just seen as useless and corrupt, if they are thought about at all.
In the long term, like some posters on CIF have predicted and Jeremy Seabrook wrote about many years ago, I suspect the real threat will in the future not come from the BNP, who can only grow so far, but as JS argued: 'a populist on an white charger' possibly a Kilroy Silk type, who smoothly but insiduously plays all up the fears of middle england while focussing on the undoubtedl crisis on our estates and much of the emasculated working class.
In the long term, like some posters on CIF have predicted and Jeremy Seabrook wrote about many years ago, I suspect the real threat will in the future not come from the BNP, who can only grow so far, but as JS argued: 'a populist on an white charger' possibly a Kilroy Silk type, who smoothly but insiduously plays all up the fears of middle england while focussing on the undoubtedl crisis on our estates and much of the emasculated working class.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
yes they're fucked now ha ha
(not aimed at you editor)
BSD have been desparetly trying to tout their 'expertise' since 'winning for Obama' over here. There's been all kinds of meeting with the Labour party, Ministers and a few meetings with well known political bloggers etc.
Link for more...
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
yes, so i heard, i mailed you know who about this and he told me you might be along.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Yep, he emailed me this morning.
To add to what Butchers said above regarding the failure of Search Light etc. during the past mayoral election. I believe if you check the results there was a fairly sizeable number of votes for the National Front in some areas, and unlike the BNP they do pin their colours to their chest in public.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
One answer to the BNP would be to get Mr Griffin on Question Time and any other political programme going and ruthlessly interrogate him about his ideas on race and repatriation. "No platform" has helped Mr Griffin in his quest to disguise the BNP's true nature. Many people I've talked to have no idea that the BNP are a seedy collection of criminals and social misfits with openly racialist views: they think they're a conservative nationalist party.
Since many in the metropolitan elite believe the public are knuckledragging bigots who must be shielded from views which tend to make them uppity, I don't see this approach occurring any time soon.
Since many in the metropolitan elite believe the public are knuckledragging bigots who must be shielded from views which tend to make them uppity, I don't see this approach occurring any time soon.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yep, the fact that a moribund NF standing on an openly racist and nazi platform managed to pick up 30 000 votes without very little work being carried out was rather ignored in the fuss over the BNPs performance.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Some stuff and stats on the coming European elections and the BNP here: http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2009/BNP-threat-european-elections.php
While to some extent that is true, however do not simply say the white working class (and yes ethnic people) who vote for them do not know this they do, it is there last choice as they seem them speaking directly for them here is where the left and others have failed the working class.
We must never give The far right any platform, we must be on the streets in the community working with the working class not for them and this building a class concious resistance to the very source of the problem the middle class and there upholding of the very system that at the end of the day acts more in there favour then it dose the working class, it breads racism and discontent it can do nothing but and this is why we must smash capitalism
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
I did say "many" people. Some were unreconstructed racial bigots.
I cannot support "no platform" policies. Alright, I might support keeping the BNP clear of certain venues in the name of public safety, but in general "no platform" rests on the idea that we need to be protected from dangerous views. Censorship over free speech. It doesn't speak badly of racialists; it speaks badly of us and our ability to reject them.
And prosaically, it lets media types get lazy and complacent. When Mr Griffin was granted a rare Newsnight interview in the wake of a Panorama expose, he made mincemeat of Mr Paxman.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Shit idea.
Griffin ran rings around Paxman and Martin Essler on two occaisons when he was 'grilled' on newsnight.
On Question time he would play 'ordinary bloke' representing the interest of common british people agasint the poncey career politicians. He's hardly going to turn up in his SS uniform, shouting 'Sieg Heil!' and start demanding that the wogs are packed off back to bongo bongo land is he?
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
*Flashback to Father Ted*
I referenced Mr Paxman's woeful Newsnight performance in the post before yours. Mr Paxman was so awful because he's not used to confronting Mr Griffin's ilk with arguments. Too vulgar. But the BNP need confronting on the bafflefield of ideas (and not in a punch-up with the anti-Nazi League, before someone says it).
Mr Paxman is a complacent patrician who expected Mr Griffin to roll over and play doggie when accused of "racism" by fellow a Oxbridge man. ("Oh gosh, am I, I'm so sorry!") He's not the man for the job. Pit Mr Griffin against Question Time regular Peter Hitchens. Mr Hitchens is a staunch conservative who passionately detests both racialism and the BNP, and has engaged Mr Griffin before. He has Mr Griffin's number.
Right now the media look scared of Mr Griffin and his odious excuse for a party. I think that's because think many of them are. But they need not to be.
*Flashback to Father Ted*
I referenced Mr Paxman's woeful Newsnight performance in the post before yours. Mr Paxman was so awful because he's not used to confronting Mr Griffin's ilk with arguments. Too vulgar. But the BNP need confronting on the bafflefield of ideas (and not in a punch-up with the anti-Nazi League, before someone says it).
Mr Paxman is a complacent patrician who expected Mr Griffin to roll over and play doggie when accused of "racism" by fellow a Oxbridge man. ("Oh gosh, am I, I'm so sorry!") He's not the man for the job. Pit Mr Griffin against Question Time regular Peter Hitchens. Mr Hitchens is a staunch conservative who passionately detests both racialism and the BNP, and has engaged Mr Griffin before. He has Mr Griffin's number.
Right now the media look scared of Mr Griffin and his odious excuse for a party. I think that's because think many of them are. But they need not to be.
What a load of bollocks, the BNP have been open in the fact they need to appeal more to The Middle class, now I wonder why this would be? The media give them far to much covarge, and demonise The White Working Class, now I wonder why this would be?
Of course we need to defeat them on The Streets and yes with Militant Force when there is a need, this is not a defeat for the working class but a serious means of engaging with them, and I would like to look for better solutions, but sometimes you need to meet force with force no matter how much we might dislike this fact, and as an anarchist I do dislike this fact, but more than prepared to understand the need to do so, not that I would glorify any violence, to do so of course would be crass, but to Denny it,s use would just be just as crass and a detriment to the class struggle.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Are you implying that middle class people hold more racialist views than working class people?
Yes, the media give the BNP coverage, but don't, as a rule, engage them in argument. Mr Griffin has been conspicuously absent from Question Time et al, unless he appeared one week when I wasn't looking. (Which is quite possible, I'm happy to be corrected.)
Mr Griffin wants to be moderate. If he was ruthlessly cross-examined on national TV and forced to confess that a) his party wants to deport non-Caucasians, b) has many members with convictions for violent crimes and associations with openly Nazi groups and c) his policies are a rag-bag collection of slogans devoid of all substance, it would hurt his desired objective quite a bit.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
a) This is no longer part of their policy. He'll never say that it is.
b) various members have consistently been exposed as criminals etc and their votes have still continued to grow. It doesn't put people off - the asumption that it will because it should is not helpful. In reality, the 'epoxse them' tactic has been mosty consistently applied and argued for in exactly the period of their (and the historical far rights) greatest ever success. It simply doesn't work.
c) he can defend his policies very capably against liberal and mainstream assumptions and more importantly, he can use those assumptions against those who hold them - he'd be speaking through the windows to those outside of the studio sick to death of the mainstream politicians. He could then be viewed as challenging those people on behalf of the those already estranged and disenfranchised from mainstream politics.
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