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Night & Day: Manchester music venue sweating on noise court hearing outcome because of one posh resident

editor

editor

hiraethified
For FUCK'S sake

More than 94,000 people have signed a petition to remove a Noise Abatement Notice issued by Manchester City Council last year. On Tuesday, the owners will appear at Manchester Crown Court to appeal against it.
The row with the council centres on a complaint from a new flat-owner in an adjoining property, a warehouse recently converted for residential use. And if found in breach, the 31-year-old family-run institution could end up having to close its doors.
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www.bbc.co.uk

Night & Day: Manchester music venue sweating on noise court hearing outcome

The owners of Night & Day are in court to appeal against a Noise Abatement Notice from the council.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
In the Manc thread, Raheem said this relates to them playing loud music outside their licensed hours, which (if true - the various news stories on it don't seem to give the precise details of the complaint) does put a different perspective on things.
Raheem said:
Yeah, music venues should be able to operate as music venues without facing complaints for noise.

A few years ago, Night and Day was threatened with closure due to a complaint, but it won in the end.

It doesn't look to me like this is the same sort of case though, although it's understandable for the owners to lay it on thick. The council don't seem to be threatening them with closure, but telling them they have to stick to their licenced hours for music, which you can hardly expect them not to do, can you?
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Glitter said:
This happens to them regularly. It’s a disgrace :mad:
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tbh if it happens regularly to them either the council are being particularly mean to them or they're actually doing something wrong. and being as the council say they want to work with the venue to mitigate the situation my money's on them doing something they shouldn't be. it's not like someone complains and whoops the council farts out a noise abatement notice, they've got to investigate and find something before they'd do that. i'll leave this here What to do when served with a Noise Abatement Notice?. just as an overview of what one lot of solicitors says on the matter
 
It's only happened once before tbf, it just feels like it happens loads because this same complaint & case has repeatedly made the headlines over the last couple of years
 
killer b said:
In the Manc thread, Raheem said this relates to them playing loud music outside their licensed hours, which (if true - the various news stories on it don't seem to give the precise details of the complaint) does put a different perspective on things.
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To be clear, I don't know anything with certainty, but I'm making a few educated guesses.

I had some involvement with N&D, but it's over a decade ago now. I also exchanged some emails with them about 7 years ago when they previously had to deal with a noise complaint.

They used to have a curfew, which I think was midnight on schoolnights and later - perhaps 1am - on Fri/Sat. They didn't necessarily close, but the music stopped. There may have been occasional breaches, but I think staff had access to a cut-off switch to enforce it.

Tbh, I don't know if this was a licencing condition, some other agreement with the council, or even just the venue's own policy.

Anyway, it looks likely to me that the issue is that the venue might be in breach of something, or at least that something has changed from how it used to be.

It's not on to move somewhere like Oldham Street and expect it to change to suit you. Obviously. But I think the situation isn't the same if you move in somewhere thinking "midnight I can cope with" and then over time it creeps forward to 4 am.

I'm not taking sides against Night and Day and I definitely wouldn't want its existence threatened, just I'm not totally sure that is what is happening.
 
Raheem said:
To be clear, I don't know anything with certainty, but I'm making a few educated guesses.

I had some involvement with N&D, but it's over a decade ago now. I also exchanged some emails with them about 7 years ago when they previously had to deal with a noise complaint.

They used to have a curfew, which I think was midnight on schoolnights and later - perhaps 1am - on Fri/Sat. They didn't necessarily close, but the music stopped. There may have been occasional breaches, but I think staff had access to a cut-off switch to enforce it.

Tbh, I don't know if this was a licencing condition, some other agreement with the council, or even just the venue's own policy.

Anyway, it looks likely to me that the issue is that the venue might be in breach of something, or at least that something has changed from how it used to be.

It's not on to move somewhere like Oldham Street and expect it to change to suit you. Obviously. But I think the situation isn't the same if you move in somewhere thinking "midnight I can cope with" and then over time it creeps forward to 4 am.

I'm not taking sides against Night and Day and I definitely wouldn't want its existence threatened, just I'm not totally sure that is what is happening.
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The owner talks about having to do club nights to subsidise the live music, which I think is a new(ish) thing, so that makes sense to me. Most of the grassroots venues I know have to do other stuff to make ends meet (club nights, tribute acts etc) cause not enough people are interested in small band nights atm
 
killer b said:
The owner talks about having to do club nights to subsidise the live music, which I think is a new(ish) thing, so that makes sense to me. Most of the grassroots venues I know have to do other stuff to make ends meet (club nights, tribute acts etc) cause not enough people are interested in small band nights atm
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Yes, maybe they really do need the extra income to keep solvent. That would make it a tricky situation.
 
killer b said:
The owner talks about having to do club nights to subsidise the live music, which I think is a new(ish) thing, so that makes sense to me. Most of the grassroots venues I know have to do other stuff to make ends meet (club nights, tribute acts etc) cause not enough people are interested in small band nights atm
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Most of the venues I've played around the UK recently can't wait to usher out the band as they have a DJ night starting immediately after. It's rubbish for bands as you don't often get chance to chat to the fans after, but I totally understand why they do it.

A lot of places and promoters will make more money just by having DJ nights but they put on bands because they want to support live music. I'm very much the same.
 
yeah - long term I think it's self-defeating if you want to remain a live music venue, but doors are still down from covid for live events everywhere so you can understand them going for some safer cash right now
 
killer b said:
the situation seems to be a bit more complex than this tbf
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Unless I've read it wrong, it's only one flat complaining.

They should be suing the developer who failed to adequately soundproof their groovy pad. Or the council for not making adequate provision when they approved the development.
 
No, there's more than one. And it's probably not true that they would have to close down if they had to limit the noise after midnight or whatever it is they're being asked to do. And being the bar that launched Elbow means that in the balance they're a negative influence on manchester's culture
 
killer b said:
And being the bar that launched Elbow means that in the balance they're a negative influence on manchester's culture
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What an infantile comment. Hundreds of other bands have played there and whether they got your snobby approval or not is totally irrelevant.
 
killer b said:
either way, you could read the thread where the more nuanced reality of the situation is discussed by people who actually have some knowledge of the venue and stake in Manchester's music scene, rather than the just taking the florid pronouncements of the venue owner on trust.
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where do we find this?
 
pbsmooth said:
there have been clubs on Oldham Street for decades that have stayed open til early hours.
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Yes, there have, and I don't think anyone would say you should be entitled to unlimited peace and quiet if you live there.

It's a specific thing with Night and Day that there are three flats that share an actual wall with it. Probably a bit of a development fail.

Possibly the proper solution would be the housing association having to buy back those flats, but I doubt there's a way of bringing that about.
 
editor said:
A club which has played a massive part in Manchester's culture could be closed down because of One. Newly. Arrived. Fucking. Person. Couldn't they see they were moving right next door to a live music venue?
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For the hard of thinking: this has nothing to do with live music. As you'd know if you read the statement from the council. It's frankly uncomfortable seeing you bluster away like this when facts to the contrary have been posted. Uncomfortable but by no means unprecedented
 
I feel for the neighbour anyway - it's one thing to move in next to a live music venue in a vibrant city centre, it's quite another to have your windows vibrating in their frames to the sound of Don't Look Back In Anger until 4am every friday and saturday night
 
killer b said:
I feel for the neighbour anyway - it's one thing to move in next to a live music venue in a vibrant city centre, it's quite another to have your windows vibrating in their frames to the sound of Don't Look Back In Anger until 4am every friday and saturday night
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So you think the venue should be forced to close early/close altogether (it may well add up to the same thing) because the levels of vibrancy were higher than expected?
 
I think it's a difficult situation that isn't aided by the rhetoric being thrown around about it. The main people at fault are the developers and the planning authorities though, and the poor guy who's spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on a flat he can neither sleep in or sell is not really the villain of the piece.
 
killer b said:
I think it's a difficult situation that isn't aided by the rhetoric being thrown around by it. The main people at fault are the developers and the planning authorities though, and the poor guy who's spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on a flat he can neither sleep in or sell is not really the villain of the piece.
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Yes, but you haven't answered my question. How would you like to see it practically resolved?
 
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