New BBC drama - The Last Kingdom

[Pingu]

It's also why 2 handed axes were popular. They could pull apart the shield wall, hook over the top or stick in the shield.

daneaxes dont really work in a shieldwall. thy need a fair bit of space to be effective. but they are scary as fuck to fight against when someone who knows what they are doing is weilding one

a shieldwall is a place for stabby weapons. shortswords and spears

 

[Pingu]

Thought the battle scene lacked spears. The shield wall, if a real historical tactic would be countered and augmented with spears.

no doubting that the shieldwall was a real tactic. its both well documented and effective. spears were the weapon of choice for rhe 2nd rank as they are both easy to use and stabby. front rank was mainly short stabby stuff and for saxson and later periods handaxes

britons rarely fought with axes it was not a warriors weapon. the levies will have had some but the warrior caste thought them a peasants weapon. likewise bows were for hunting not battle. they were used but not in great numbers and archers were looked down upon

 

[Belushi]

We even have pictures of one in action

 

[Pingu]

see that bloke in the light green on the left of the picture?

hes just got everyone else killed he has - but the rest of them in this picture show what a shieldwall probably looked like. so lots of stabbing at legs and heads and you depended on the bloke on your right to use his shield to protect you (hence the term "right hand man"

 

[Pingu]

just to hop back on topic.. i liked the show and will watch it again

 

[MrSki]

In the books (IIRC) it mentions that the shield wall needs to protect the feet & obviously the heads of those involved. It is not impossible that the Vikings had learnt something of this from the Romans? If you survived a shield wall & lived to tell the tale then surely next time you were in one you you make sure that the bits that failed last time were sorted. Feet seemed to be the big thing in the books so presume the threat from arrows & overhead spears were already sorted with the third layer.

 

[Pingu]

In the books (IIRC) it mentions that the shield wall needs to protect the feet & obviously the heads of those involved. It is not impossible that the Vikings had learnt something of this from the Romans? If you survived a shield wall & lived to tell the tale then surely next time you were in one you you make sure that the bits that failed last time were sorted. Feet seemed to be the big thing in the books so presume the threat from arrows & overhead spears were already sorted with the third layer.

i just cant see it working/ to have their shields like that you wouldnt be able to push properly and the wall would fail. the feet thing was why kite shields crept in. the shields move up and down btw during the fight . something to remember is that they were not lashed onto the arm like more modern shields. they were held by a central handle behind the boss so were easy to roll up and down to protect both the wielder and the man to his left.

to add- a shield wall is not a defensive formation as such. its an attacking formation and the idea is to break through your opponents shield wall and the your more rear ranks can wreak havoc with the rear ranks of the enemy (the bravest fought in the front so those at the rear were generally easy to kill)

obviously not been in a killy type wall but a proper one in a re enactment is a scary enough place to be and is utterly exhausting

 

[A380]

I loved the books and thought the programme was good. Glad that we don't have shield walls any more.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Ive read most of the books having come across them in various charity shops and enjoyed them muchly.

I though the part one of the TV version was very good overall. Rutger Hauer was ace. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

 

[JimW]

Rutger was good value, though by the looks of the trailers the odd shield wall and rectangular shields for Saxons look like fixtures unfortunately.

 

[fizzerbird]

I'm struggling to remember where I've seen the young actor who plays Uhtred as a boy? I'm sure I've watched him in something recently?

 

[belboid]

I'm struggling to remember where I've seen the young actor who plays Uhtred as a boy? I'm sure I've watched him in something recently?

Doctor Foster

Either that, or you're mistaken

 

[fizzerbird]

Doctor Foster

Either that, or you're mistaken

YES!!!!! That's it!!!!

The son in Dr Foster Drama!

Thankyou! x

 

[Artaxerxes]

Rutger was good value, though by the looks of the trailers the odd shield wall and rectangular shields for Saxons look like fixtures unfortunately.

Probably taking the word wall rather to literally. Which is daft.

Thought it was ok, preferred Vikings. Rutger wasn't in it nearly enough. They also did a bit of chopping and changing of how Uthred gets captured.

 

[Pickman's model]

I loved the books and thought the programme was good. Glad that we don't have shield walls any more.

third from right seems to be having some trouble with his visor.

 

[bi0boy]

Just watched the first episode. The Vikings sound like they are from Ireland and South Africa.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just watched the first episode. The Vikings sound like they are from Ireland and South Africa.

the modern equivalents of the medieval scandinavian accent.

 

[DotCommunist]

Probably taking the word wall rather to literally. Which is daft.

Thought it was ok, preferred Vikings. Rutger wasn't in it nearly enough. They also did a bit of chopping and changing of how Uthred gets captured.

I think Vikings had it better in terms of the drama and politicking. The Last Kingdom battle scenes were just as good imo.Also, Rutgers a legend etc but he is no Ragnar Loftbrook

 

[Artaxerxes]

I think Vikings had it better in terms of the drama and politicking. The Last Kingdom battle scenes were just as good imo.Also, Rutgers a legend etc but he is no Ragnar Loftbrook

Well no, he's 60 odd years older for one thing.

 

[trabuquera]

Just watched the first episode. The Vikings sound like they are from Ireland and South Africa.

... they are played by actors who are legit Swedes and Danes. (which is why their English sounds so much more English than the English actors playing the Saxons.)

 

[bi0boy]

Hmmm well English actors did quite a bit of subtitled Old English in The Vikings which was cool, probably too adventurous for the beeb though.

I liked Matthew Macfadyen as the lead in Ripper Street but didn't feel he would pull off the lead in a Medieval drama, so that ended well.

I was surprised to see another Ripper Street star as Alfred though, that's a great casting decision.

 

[JimW]

Seems to be veering away from the books and is getting a bit BBC formulaic. Not even convinced the changes have made it an easier-to-follow story.
Is a while since I read the books though so maybe my memory's shonky.

 

[Kaka Tim]

I think its shaping up very well - with the characters more fleshed out than in the books - esp Brida and Arthur. Uba and Guthram were good value as well.

 

[trabuquera]

Not bad, not bad at all, tho I get a bit annoyed with all the "oooh look at me aren't we naughty" provocative swearing (tits! humping! let's hump! and hump again!) - not that medieval ppl didn't swear or swive of course - I just think they're trying too hard to make it all adulty when BBC standards/budgets mean they can't dial up the gore to full cable-TV level.

Also like skinny nervy neurotic weirdo Alfred with his IBS (or was it coeliac disease?) - showing even weaklings had their place in this violent era

 

[neonwilderness]

Just watching episode two now, Alfred is almost exactly as I'd imagined him from the books

 

[StoneRoad]

I used to work with a guy who did Viking re-enactments, and Pingu is quite right about a shield wall - exhausting is an understatement.
After one battle he came into work with a bruise on his back, horse hoofed shape ! but no memory of being stood on by a horse.
Another time he brought some shields, a long handled Dane axe and some other stuff in to show us. The only safety concession is that the "fighting" weapons are blunt and chopping at the head/face is not allowed. He told us that the axemen would charge around the end of a shield wall, to roll it up as those on the edges or at the rear would be the "weaker" warriors. The defence was to have expert spearmen to hand as their weapons reach is similar and with a shield, better protected.

 

[Cid]

Another Alfred fan here, well cast.

 

[JimW]

Needed more beard. Not a lot more, but more. Hmph.

 

[Pingu]

bit of deviation from the books but am liking it so far

 

[Pingu]

I used to work with a guy who did Viking re-enactments, and Pingu is quite right about a shield wall - exhausting is an understatement.
After one battle he came into work with a bruise on his back, horse hoofed shape ! but no memory of being stood on by a horse.
Another time he brought some shields, a long handled Dane axe and some other stuff in to show us. The only safety concession is that the "fighting" weapons are blunt and chopping at the head/face is not allowed. He told us that the axemen would charge around the end of a shield wall, to roll it up as those on the edges or at the rear would be the "weaker" warriors. The defence was to have expert spearmen to hand as their weapons reach is similar and with a shield, better protected.

we tend to operate in 3s. one spearman a shield/swordsman and someone with a handaxe (the big dane axes are a bit later on timewise to the period we do ) handaxe and swordsman in front rank spearman 2nd rank. handaxe pulls shield, spearman getss stabby whilst swordsman defends/does opportunistic stabby stuff