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Negating the effectiveness of water cannon.

TopCat

Putin fanboy
If the police get water cannon to attack protesters how do people negate their effectiveness? It seems a real fear that the water stream may damage the eyes, nose and mouth. So goggles? Getting wet at this time of year could well pose serious health risks for many people too.

I would think though that the water cannon trucks are pretty cumbersome. Plus they hold a finite amount of water.

Any one got any thoughts?
 
Any one got any thoughts?

408_rpg-7.jpg
 
I don't think the times demand RPG's somehow! But these bulky beats do have weak points. The tyres obviously. Plus they need to see where they are going so paint thrown on the windscreen would be effective. Have we got any people from the north of Ireland here who might know?
 
ultra lightwieght cagouls- they wiegh sweet fuck all and fold down into little carry bags. They won't negate the pressure but the soaking-in-cold-weather they would negate.
 
People could clamber up and fuck about with the nozzle? Is nozzle the right term?

That's what I was thinking. Get on top and try and break whatever is up there. Might be tricky to get up there, and you'd probably get battered when you got down.
 
They have one obvious weakness - they can only aim at one point at any one time.

Not true, I'm afraid. The new generation is capable of creating a carpet of water that is so fine that it is almost impossible to breath underneath it. It's great for OB, because it's effective without appearing as brutal as the traditional cannon type.
 
"Water cannon could soon be used to quell serious civil disturbances on British streets after a successful display of their effectiveness to senior police officers.

A demonstration was held at a training centre outside Belfast in response to requests from police forces. The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) is the only force equipped with the vehicles, which cost £750,000 each and deliver powerful jets of water at 5C.

Three years ago the force bought six for use in riots as alternatives to plastic bullets. As many as 17 people, demonstrators and bystanders, were killed during the Troubles by plastic bullets striking crowds or ricocheting in narrow streets.

Water cannon are more commonly used on the continent. Last week French riot police turned hoses on demonstrators in Paris when youths objecting to new job contracts pelted lines of police with stones and bottles. The rioters were quickly dispersed.
The display, billed as the UK's first water cannon conference, was held at Steeple, County Antrim, at the PSNI's public order training centre. Officers from South Yorkshire, Greater Manchester, Fife, Cambridgeshire, Avon and Somerset, Northumbria and the Irish republic's police forces attended.

The Metropolitan police was given a private demonstration last year. Officials from the police inspectorate, Northern Ireland Policing Board and Independent Police Complaints Commission also came to assess the vehicles' potential.

The conference was chaired by the PSNI's assistant chief constable, Duncan McCausland, one of the few officers who has commanded the deployment of water cannon. "Last year they were used effectively during serious public disorder," Mr McCausland told the Guardian. "They provided us with additional tactical options when confronting disturbances around the Whiterock [Orange Order] parade and the Ardoyne.

"We had to deal with blast bombs and gunfire. They gave us a proportionate and appropriate, graduated response. They can save lives and are a means of de-escalating public order situations. They can be used at high pressure (15 bar) or to create an intense haze of water - which makes it difficult to breath and disrupts sit-down protests."

The vehicles, which carry 9,000 litres (1,980 gallons) of water, are deployed in pairs. "Their presence alone will persuade many people they don't want to become involved in anything other than peaceful protests," said Mr McCausland. "Obviously we would prefer not to have to use them." He said British officers were considering buying them but may wait until police reorganisation gives regional forces greater combined purchasing power.

The Association of Chief Police Officers yesterday confirmed it was investigating whether to recommend their use in Britain. Its study is led by Nigel Yeo, the assistant chief constable of Sussex. "The PSNI's experience suggests they have been used successfully and may therefore be of use in England and Wales," an Acpo spokeswoman said. "They are obviously less dangerous than plastic bullets. We are not in a position to recommend them yet."

Nicholas Long, an IPCC commissioner at the demonstration, said: "In principle they do offer opportunities for a less lethal option in an otherwise dangerous environment." He said the vehicle was "an impressive piece of kit with space-age consoles".

At the start of the Troubles in the early 1960s, police used converted Austin fire tenders as water cannon. A wire cage protected the driver and operators from missiles. Armoured personnel carriers were later modified as water cannon, but the vehicles were considered cumbersome and ineffective.

The Belgian Gendarmerie lent the RUC two, technologically improved water cannon in 1999. They were later used in the Drumcree protests.

The Patten report on policing in Northern Ireland recommended: "The police should be equipped with a broader range of public order equipment ... so that a commander has a number of options which might reduce reliance on plastic baton rounds."

http://www.policeoracle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1646&PN=1
 
it's an infantry vs tanks question. A vehicle with immense firepower vs individuals with the ability to attack it from its weak sides (sides, rear, top). IE, don't try and take it on frontally but get round its flanks and onto it

Probably tho, the water cannon vehicle's limited capacity is probably its greatest weakness

Anyway, the kids on these protests seem pretty good at coming up with solutions, and I'm sure they would if these things were deployed
 
Not true, I'm afraid. The new generation is capable of creating a carpet of water that is so fine that it is almost impossible to breath underneath it. It's great for OB, because it's effective without appearing as brutal as the traditional cannon type.

Ta. Actually, i was just thinking about if i was right and recalled the French world cup where they used one that sort of acted as a sweep across the whole square it was used on.
 
On a slightly more sensible note (RPG's having been ruled out) might I suggest, as has already been suggested, blinding the things with paint bombs aimed at the windscreens? The tyres will almost certainly be the run-flat type and the armoured body is, obviously, impervious to anything short of an RPG. I'd also suggest, seeing as these things will almost certainly have windscreen wipers, mixing the paint with PVA glue, perhaps, in order to make it even harder to get the stuff off the windscreens and thus further deny the plod a clear view.
 

Footage of water cannon use at G8 in 2007.

That one had tear gas in it too :\

I would imagine if things get really hairy and they roll this out, they'll have police lines protecting the tank from attack, and will implement thnigs like snatch squads. :hmm:
 
To my mind, the real threat of water being used isn't the physical aspect, but the psychological one; being freezing cold and soaking wet is incredibly demoralizing. Perhaps one way to counter that would be some way to offer warm dry clothing, and soup etc to anyone caught in the wet?
 
On a slightly more sensible note (RPG's having been ruled out) might I suggest, as has already been suggested, blinding the things with paint bombs aimed at the windscreens? The tyres will almost certainly be the run-flat type and the armoured body is, obviously, impervious to anything short of an RPG. I'd also suggest, seeing as these things will almost certainly have windscreen wipers, mixing the paint with PVA glue, perhaps, in order to make it even harder to get the stuff off the windscreens and thus further deny the plod a clear view.

This is a very good suggestion.
 
They have one obvious weakness - they can only aim at one point at any one time.

The ones borrowed from NI for mayday 04 in Dublin had two nozzles. Except for one bloke who got blasted off a big wall, all the injuries were from batons. Ludicrous day. 50-60% of the country's gardai were there for a teeny demo.
 
i'd imagine they're fairly cumbersome beasts too


Interesting statement in that bluirb from the coppers website re: sit down protests.


If they do go ahead with it, I'm sure they won't become operational in England until the summer months
 
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