My electricity bill has just tripled: how about yours? Alternative suppliers?

[existentialist]

ah ok I thought mine 3 kW for just under an hour - fair point I don't generally fill very high. It may not be heating the whole tank, which I hadn't thought of.

The hot water rises to the top, from where it is drawn off. So you can get a quantity of hot water at the full (ish) temperature, but how much you get depends on how long the heater was on.

 

[two sheds]

Yes, it still surprises me that water is that good a heat insulator.

 

[gentlegreen]

I have to confess my tank is uninsulated - but I rarely heat water these days - I went 8 weeks without a hot bath earlier in the year ...
Perhaps I'll treat myself to a new duvet and wrap an old one around it ...

 

[existentialist]

I have to confess my tank is uninsulated - but I rarely heat water these days - I went 8 weeks without a hot bath earlier in the year ...
Perhaps I'll treat myself to a new duvet and wrap an old one around it ...

An insulating jacket costs about £20. I'd go so far as to say that wilfully operating an immersion heater without one is an act of deliberate ecological vandalism...quite apart from the cost to you of running an uninsulated tank.

 

[20Bees]

I wrapped a couple of foam camping mats around the cylinder years ago, probably after the last time my son did Cub camp about 25 years ago, and draped all the old duvets and sleeping bags over it. Added split foam insulation tubes to all the pipes in the airing cupboard too. I’ve never been into the loft and can only see the cold tank from the hatch, but whenever a plumber has been up there I’ve asked if anything needs more lagging and they’ve always said it looks ok.

The oil boiler is set to heat water for 20 minutes each morning and it’s plenty for a shower and washing up, it’s still hot now. I hardly ever use the bath because it’s enormous but the boiler needs another 20 minutes if I do.

 

[gentlegreen]

An insulating jacket costs about £20. I'd go so far as to say that wilfully operating an immersion heater without one is an act of deliberate ecological vandalism...quite apart from the cost to you of running an uninsulated tank.

I run my immersion once a month. Used to be once a week.
How much of the 6kwh is lost to the air ?

 

[prunus]

I run my immersion once a month. Used to be once a week.
How much of the 6kwh is lost to the air ?

At a rough guess, lots. Probably more than half of it. An uninsulated hot water tank is basically a radiator, and very good at transferring heat to the air.

Tell me the size of your tank and I can do some sums to smooth off the edges of the guess if you like.

 

[existentialist]

I run my immersion once a month. Used to be once a week.
How much of the 6kwh is lost to the air ?

A fair bit. And the cylinder will cool significantly quicker without insulation, although it doesn't sound as if that is presently a problem for you, if you're only heating water for immediate use. I admit that I was assuming that you were heating a day's worth of hot water for use throughout the day, rather than just when you need it.

 

[gentlegreen]

I confess as a very intermittent hot water user (once a week when working - once a month now) and with electricity at 20p or less, I wasn't nearly as concerned as I should be .. at current prices if I'm wasting 3kwh per month, that's 3.4 p per day - I will see if I can spare an old duvet ... most of the imperfections in my lifestyle can be put down to the assumption that I would have left this place by now ..
I was always more bothered by the tank water remaining 10 degrees warmer than the cold tap - and that seemed to last quite a while ...

 

[existentialist]

Since my hot water needs are, essentially, a daily wash and the (not always daily ) washing-up, I have wondered in the past whether I might just be better off boiling a kettle (or two) when needed, but I decided that having hot water, ahaha, "on tap" was too much of a convenience to want to bother with kettles. I guess people's priorities are all different!

 

[gentlegreen]

Since my hot water needs are, essentially, a daily wash and the (not always daily ) washing-up, I have wondered in the past whether I might just be better off boiling a kettle (or two) when needed, but I decided that having hot water, ahaha, "on tap" was too much of a convenience to want to bother with kettles. I guess people's priorities are all different!

I briefly had a second-hand electric "geyser" in the kitchen when I lived downstairs ...
These days I only wash up if there's fungus in my one saucepan or I drop my one fork on the floor ...
At one stage I used to cook a lot of rice and would use the poured-off water for washing up.

 

[existentialist]

I briefly had a second-hand electric "geyser" in the kitchen when I lived downstairs ...
These days I only wash up if there's fungus in my one saucepan or I drop my one fork on the floor ...
At one stage I used to cook a lot of rice and would use the poured-off water for washing up.

I admire your tenacity in sticking to your - somewhat unique - lifestyle, but I lack the commitment (or desire) to emulate it: I have four forks, three saucepans (all fungus-free), and I wash up in fresh water. I even wash glassware under running hot water (as it's filling the sink), so as to make it sparkly and nice. I could probably work out what those privileges cost me in power usage, but since I don't intend changing, I shan't bother

 

[CH1]

I run my immersion once a month. Used to be once a week.
How much of the 6kwh is lost to the air ?

Whatever happened to airing cupboards?

 

[existentialist]

Whatever happened to airing cupboards?

I think "need for floor space" happened to them. They were quite a nice thing, though.

 

[two sheds]

I always use a kettle to wash up with. I'm hopeful my hot water tank is empty of dead wildlife but I don't want to take the risk

 

[existentialist]

I always use a kettle to wash up with. I'm hopeful my hot water tank is empty of dead wildlife but I don't want to take the risk

You have an open hot water tank?

 

[two sheds]

well it has a cover on but you know what pigeons are like

 

[cupid_stunt]

Since my hot water needs are, essentially, a daily wash and the (not always daily ) washing-up, I have wondered in the past whether I might just be better off boiling a kettle (or two) when needed, but I decided that having hot water, ahaha, "on tap" was too much of a convenience to want to bother with kettles. I guess people's priorities are all different!

With my old gas boiler I had the habit of heating the hot water tank most days for half an hour, which would last the day, that was costing around 52.5p on those days, that would be about 76p now.

With the new combi-boiler it costs under 14p at the new rates for enough hot water to shower and do the washing-up, it's a bit of an inconvenience not having a tank for hot water on tap during the day and having to wait the extra time for the hot water to travel from the boiler to the bathroom, but I've got used to washing my hands with cold water now, although that may change as we head into winter, and much colder water.

 

[gentlegreen]

Whatever happened to airing cupboards?

When I moved in nearly 40 years ago it was enclosed but for some random reason I dismantled the cupboard - I don't know how the jacket came to be lost ... it's enclosed again now and there are some optimistic sheets of polystyrene on the outside wall - I ought to tell myself off because I stripped the downstairs kitchen last year and threw away loads of polystyrene sheet - I had to sneak it into my neighbours' bins ... but with even less need for hot water now (basically when I need to get vaccinated or similar), the motivation is not there.
When I move I will go full-on with solar and super-insulation ... not sure about the bathing - but I suppose I may have solar energy going spare ...

 

[existentialist]

With my old gas boiler I had the habit of heating the hot water tank most days for half an hour, which would last the day, that was costing around 52.5p on those days, that would be about 76p now.

With the new combi-boiler it costs under 14p at the new rates for enough hot water to shower and do the washing-up, it's a bit of an inconvenience not having a tank for hot water on tap during the day and having to wait the extra time for the hot water to travel from the boiler to the bathroom, but I've got used to washing my hands with cold water now, although that may change as we head into winter, and much colder water.

Washing hands in cold water I can live with, but I spent far too much time on camping holidays as a kid washing my face in freezing bloody cold water to ever want to reproduce that experience, given the choice!

 

[MrCurry]

I’ve made sure we have enough cutlery and crockery to make it through up to 5 days before putting the dishwasher on. That uses 1.5kWh each time, so being able to push it that extra day further and only running it when there’s no more space to cram a single dish more into it does save a little bit of leccy. But food isn’t left to rot on the dirty plates - everything is briefly soaked then blasted with cold water before it goes in, so it’s almost clean while sitting there in the d/w awaiting its turn to be properly washed.

The number of days we can last between washes varies depending on what we’ve been cooking, but I only ran it 7 times in Sept, so the average seems to be around 4.25 days.

 

[existentialist]

When I moved in nearly 40 years ago it was enclosed but for some random reason I dismantled the cupboard - I don't know how the jacket came to be lost ... it's enclosed again now and there are some optimistic sheets of polystyrene on the outside wall - I ought to tell myself off because I stripped the downstairs kitchen last year and threw away loads of polystyrene sheet - I had to sneak it into my neighbours' bins ... but with even less need for hot water now (basically when I need to get vaccinated or similar), the motivation is not there.
When I move I will go full-on with solar and super-insulation ...

I'm starting to feel like some kind of effete snowflake Urban outlier!

 

[Leafster]

I’ve made sure we have enough cutlery and crockery to make it through up to 5 days before putting the dishwasher on. That uses 1.5kWh each time, so being able to push it that extra day further and only running it when there’s no more space to cram a single dish more into it does save a little bit of leccy. But food isn’t left to rot on the dirty plates - everything is briefly soaked then blasted with cold water before it goes in, so it’s almost clean while sitting there in the d/w awaiting its turn to be properly washed.

The number of days we can last between washes varies depending on what we’ve been cooking, but I only ran it 7 times in Sept, so the average seems to be around 4.25 days.

I think I must be profligate with my use of cutlery, crockery and cooking pots as I only seem to be able to manage about 3 days before the dishwasher goes on.

I used to run it when my app said the energy used had the lowest carbon footprint but now I'm balancing that with the very slight possibility that the heat it generates helps keep my small kitchen just a little bit warmer when I need it.

 

[MrCurry]

I think I must be profligate with my use of cutlery, crockery and cooking pots as I only seem to be able to manage about 3 days before the dishwasher goes on.

I used to run it when my app said the energy used had the lowest carbon footprint but now I'm balancing that with the very slight possibility that the heat it generates helps keep my small kitchen just a little bit warmer when I need it.

I wouldn’t have been able to push it this far with our old Whirlpool Dishwasher, which somehow got filled up every other day, but after changing to an 8 year old Miele machine I picked up for £100 earlier this year, I’ve been really pushing it much further. It’s hard to understand how, since both are the same size (60cm wide) standard machines, but the Miele is so much better laid out, the racks accommodate 10 plates of each size, plus 10 bowls. It gets us that much further thru the week before it needs switching on.

Christ, this must be the very definition of middle aged failure at life - I’m getting excited over the size of my dishwasher racks

 

[alex_]

With my old gas boiler I had the habit of heating the hot water tank most days for half an hour, which would last the day, that was costing around 52.5p on those days, that would be about 76p now.

With the new combi-boiler it costs under 14p at the new rates for enough hot water to shower and do the washing-up, it's a bit of an inconvenience not having a tank for hot water on tap during the day and having to wait the extra time for the hot water to travel from the boiler to the bathroom, but I've got used to washing my hands with cold water now, although that may change as we head into winter, and much colder water.

That’s a 225 gbp cost saving per year, the government should be giving our free vouchers for boiler swaps….

 

[CH1]

When I moved in nearly 40 years ago it was enclosed but for some random reason I dismantled the cupboard - I don't know how the jacket came to be lost ... it's enclosed again now and there are some optimistic sheets of polystyrene on the outside wall - I ought to tell myself off because I stripped the downstairs kitchen last year and threw away loads of polystyrene sheet - I had to sneak it into my neighbours' bins ... but with even less need for hot water now (basically when I need to get vaccinated or similar), the motivation is not there.
When I move I will go full-on with solar and super-insulation ... not sure about the bathing - but I suppose I may have solar energy going spare ...

I would have thought the majority of situations the hot water cylinder would just heat up the house.
When I moved in here I found the boiler in a toilet/out-house so the cylinder took the chill off the loo first thing in the morning. My v. diligent central heating engineer then installed a 40 gallon cylinder with dual thermostatic control and impacted foam insulation - which was fine until the boiler failed completely in 2011 (after 24 years faithful service).
Owing to government regulations I had to change to a Combi, as a recondensing boiler did not fit in the space occupied by the old non-condensing boiler.

Now I'm back to square 1 - and freeze my bollocks off having an early morning crap.

 

[AnnaKarpik]

That doesn't explain it very well for OVO customers.



I pay by DD, what they are actually doing is crediting your bill, then refunding it to your bank account, then deducting it from you bill.

There's no other way it can be done with the direct debit model because the DD amount is not directly linked to usage in the billing period and neither is the discount.

 

[gentlegreen]

I would have thought the majority of situations the hot water cylinder would just heat up the house.

The bathroom extension is completely uninsulated, draughty and exposed.
I always leave the hot water in the bath to cool down afterwards ... if the water was grubby when it was my first bath in a month, it was fertiliser once I'd done my laundry in it - and my beans appreciated it as I pumped it into the drip irrigation system...

 

[CH1]

The bathroom extension is completely uninsulated, draughty and exposed.
I always leave the hot water in the bath to cool down afterwards ... if the water was grubby when it was my first bath in a month, it was fertiliser once I'd done my laundry in it - and my beans appreciated it as I pumped it into the drip irrigation system...

1940s washing techniques - another story.

I want a non-silo'd plumber/ch engineer - right now. - to restore my 1960s kitchen. I have a washing machine that died just before Covid struck and a secondhand gas cooker acquired on moving-in in 1986. This has holes in the top of the burner caps - and in the side of one of the burners. I see on Ebay all gas burners and burner caps are now made in China and not guaranteed to work compatibly - or even on "the right type of gas" perhaps.

I could cope with this - but SE Gas Networks have escalated me to Level 5 of threatening a new gas meter plus gas safety checks (started by Ovo incidentsally). To change the meter they have to go through the kitchen - and they might also note that I'm running the central heating boiler from lead plugged into the ring main socket as the dedicated boiler supply which some Wickes enthusiast embedded in the non-damp-proofed concrete floor before my arrival on the scene in 1986 fused out completely in 2013 or so. Not to mention the electric mains "consumer unit" opposite the gas meter which is possibly illegal by now.

I know the guy who installed the Combi could well deal with a replacement gas cooker (eye level grill), replacement washing machine and possible re-wire, but even these local "central heating engineers" stand on their dignity and say "I only do boilers" etc.

No wonder people these days are slaves to Magnet Kitchens and second mortgages.

Maybe I ought to attempt to negotiate with the people who did the boiler, with a view to limiting the damage to a new Turkish Beko gas cooker and a washing machine, preferably one that lasts more than 10 years (as Indesit seem to do). The SLG engineer is very accommodating, but he suffers from matriarchal management (if I'm allowed to say that here). One interesting manifestation of that is the accounts office "test" your account to see if you can pay for the work before they start. Wise enough from their point of view, but makes me feel a bit like a naughty schoolboy.

.

 

[MrCurry]

One of the things I did ages ago in the search for reducing our electricity bills was to make sure everything which has a standby power consumption was on a switched socket and only switched on when being used. Or I thought I did, as one sneaky little bastard escaped me. Can you believe a toaster has a standby consumption?

i recently found out our Delonghi “Brilliante” toaster was sucking 0.7W continuously when plugged in, and had been doing so for years. Not so brilliant if you ask me! Now it is switched via the same switch which powers the microwave up only when needed.