I'm sure Ms Heywood could put Messrs Annan, Brown et al right on a few things and I have no doubt that they would be immensely grateful for her wise counsel.Justin said:
Michael Howard and Brixton
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Donna Ferentes
jubliado
You'd never know though, because they'd never get the chance to say so.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
fuck me! the thread that would never die comes back!(not that I mind that much, bearing in mind it contains the detail of one of my finest moments EVER! 
)
)
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Mr BC said:I'd have thought our liberal friends would be a bit shame faced about re-visiting all this 'Michael-Howard-is-going-to-cost-you-so-many-votes' stuff. After all, however unpopular he was, we still made a net gain of seats from you boys.
Cheap shot. This is a thread about Michael Howard and Brixton.
AFAIK, I was the only regular poster on these boards looking at the votes as they came out of the ballot boxes for Brixton Hill and Tulse Hill at the [Streatham constituency] count. The Tory votes were outnumbered by the Greens in most of those bundles, even the box for the leafiest (and previously Toryest) streets of Tulse Hill.
IMHO, many of those people weren't just voting for the Lib Dems (or the Greens) because they received bits of paper telling them the tactical position.
A lot of local former Conservative voters may hold Thatcherite views on economics (their personal tax bill in particular), and many are "in denial" about the impact of the property boom on poorer Londoners.
But they are people who choose to live in a multicultural area, and they certainly did not like a lot of Howard's campaign agenda with its obsession with illegal immigration and "asylum", which they prettily readily decoded as being about race and appealing to the bigotry of the whitest parts of "middle england".
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
A cynic writes: not so much "in denial" as "not interested".lang rabbie said:
lang rabbie said:
Oh dear. I seem to have touched a nerve.
The tory vote in Brixton has been on the slide for decades. Our vote is pretty much confined to the old white working class, who are (a) dying and (b) moving to Beckenham. Interestingly though, in the Streatham constituency as a whole, the tory vote held up incredibly well, despite the usual liberal lies about it being a wasted vote etc. etc. This suggests that the Wandsworth over-spill is pushing more tory minded young-ish professionals into wards like St. Leonard's.
So far as the national tory campaign was concerned, I agree, it was a awful and cost us huge numbers of votes. Think how many more of your seats we would have gained had we got our act together.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Yes, but you might have lost the racist bigot vote. Or your "core vote" to use the psephological term.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
WHO 'boys'? I don't think there's been that many NuLabour diehards on this thread?Mr BC said:I'd have thought our liberal friends would be a bit shame faced about re-visiting all this 'Michael-Howard-is-going-to-cost-you-so-many-votes' stuff. After all, however unpopular he was, we still made a net gain of seats from you boys.
(I spoilt my ballot)and it does rather say a lot about the mighty having fallen that you're cracking open the champers over pushing the Tory seats up to a massive, humongous, ginormous, umm...197 seats (that's 127 short of a majority, btw).
I'm starting to forget this decrepit ol' banger was once just about the most successsful election fighting machine western europe's ever seen!
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Mr BC said:
Are you really saying that the Tory party has given up trying to get the support of Brixtonians denounced elsewhere on these boards as "gentrifiers" - people in IT, media and advertising jobs with household incomes in the 70k-120k range. If the Tories have given up on higher rate taxpayers and mortgage holders who are you looking for as a core vote?
And until very recently, I would have thought there was a not insignificant conservative vote from middle-aged black churchgoers.
Mr BC said:
Going solely on the demographic changes across the constituency in the last five years - largely driven by the property market - the Tories ought to have seen a rise in their vote! Anyone who looks around the streets of Brixton Hill and Streatham Hill can see that many flats are now occupied with people with City jobs who look to Clapham and Balham as much as to Brixton.
Red Jezza said:WHO 'boys'? I don't think there's been that many NuLabour diehards on this thread?
and it does rather say a lot about the mighty having fallen that you're cracking open the champers over pushing the Tory seats up to a massive, humongous, ginormous, umm...197 seats (that's 127 short of a majority, btw).
I'm starting to forget this decrepit ol' banger was once just about the most successsful election fighting machine western europe's ever seen!
The 'boys' in this instance are the liberals. Overall the election result was disastrous for us - worse even than '97 and '01 given the unpopularity of the government. But a sizeable proportion of chattering class opinion had it that the Lib Dems would make sweeping gains at our expense. In fact, we made net gains at their expense and slashed their majorities in a number of seats.
lang rabbie said:Are you really saying that the Tory party has given up trying to get the support of Brixtonians denounced elsewhere on these boards as "gentrifiers" - people in IT, media and advertising jobs with household incomes in the 70k-120k range. If the Tories have given up on higher rate taxpayers and mortgage holders who are you looking for as a core vote?
And until very recently, I would have thought there was a not insignificant conservative vote from middle-aged black churchgoers.
Going solely on the demographic changes across the constituency in the last five years - largely driven by the property market - the Tories ought to have seen a rise in their vote! Anyone who looks around the streets of Brixton Hill and Streatham Hill can see that many flats are now occupied with people with City jobs who look to Clapham and Balham as much as to Brixton.
Erm, where did I say anything about giving up trying to get the support of anybody?
I merely pointed out the reality of who supports us at the moment and has done in recent years in Brixton. No need for confused smileys then.
Of course, we need to get the support of middle class professionals. Of course they should be our core vote.
There has never been a tory vote of any size from black church goers. It's been talked about endlessly and efforts have been made to woo it, but it has never materialised.
As for Streatham, our vote did go up (by a massive 0.3%). Given that in 2001 we slipped from 2nd to 3rd though, it was widely expected (not least amongst Lib Dem activists) that our vote would suffer its customary squeeze once the liberal 'the tories can't win here' leaflets started going out. The fact that it didn't, reflects the extent of the demographic changes you refer to.
cllr said:
I wish people would actually read what I post rather than imagine things I didn't say.
I didn't suggest we smashed the liberals, I merely pointed out we made a net gain of seats from them. But was there a single political commentator who predicted this? No. On the contrary, it was widely predicted that the liberals would make large gains at our expense and there was much chattering about the liberals decapitation strategy which, with the sole exception of the awful Tim Collins, succeeded in significantly increasing the tory majorities in the targeted seats.
The election also saw significant falls in liberal majorites in seats like Sutton and Cheam; Carshalton & Wallington; some of the Cornwall seats etc. Again, this was contrary to the expectation that incumbent liberals always push up their majorities because of increased personal votes and may represent a realisiation amongst some ex-tory voters that the only way to get rid of the labour govt. is to vote tory rather than liberal, as they've done in the last few elections.
Ooooooooh!Mr BC said:
Don't fight. You're an endangered species as it is.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
If the choice is between a Tory or a Lib Dem then it doesn't actually matter which one they get from the point of view of not electing Labour.Mr BC said:
However, if they don't vote Tory they may at least avoid going to Hell.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
ooh I love it...Tories and Libdems flatlining in cyberspace as well as real life! 
'sfunny, I thought this lot were meant to be allies, as far as Brixton is concerned....
'sfunny, I thought this lot were meant to be allies, as far as Brixton is concerned....
Justin said:
Of course it does, if the aim is to elect an alternative government rather than simply another opposition MP.
(BTW, old boy, if you think the 'all tories are racist bigots' and 'if you vote tory you go to hell' quips are cutting, think again. I've heard it all (and worse) before and it's simply so much water off the duck's back to me.)
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Have you heard that you shouldn't use one set of rounded brackets inside another set?
I blame the parent(hese)s.Justin said:
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Shouldn't you be charging two hundred quid an hour for writing a letter?Mr BC said:
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
IntoStella said:
Groans....
LADIES!Justin said:
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Yep - think of the Tories and you start thinking of a toilet.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
lang rabbie said:
Which is the argument of Shagger Norris in London.In London traditional white working class voted for the BNP in Dagenham.I didnt agree with Howard but immigration is one of those issues that bubbles away beneath the surface of British politics.Seems to me that in this country its not acceptable to say you have concerns about immigration/race.Id rather it was out in the open.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
errmm, straight up now...are you a tory or a libdem cllr, cllr?cllr said:
I've been informed (by a reliable source) of who you are-all I'm asking you is to wave yer rosette. PM me if you prefer, but out with it
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