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    Lazy Llama

LSE Tories: "We'll only campaign against far left fascists"

They're just copying old ideas from the US right because they have no ideas of their own and they want to imitate a right-wing group that has been successful, though it seems that they've not noticed the recent change of government.
 
I think I've discussed something similar on U75 before, albeit not related to the BNP. It is very confusing when you look at parties on a sliding ideological scale from the left to the right, especially when there are already labels attached to them. It's even more confusing if, like me, you look at two scales - economic and political. The "far right" is a label that has always been attached to fascism, but they are only far right politically, not economically (altho there are exceptions to this rule). Economically they are pretty far to the left, which gives those on the traditional right (Conservative/Republican) and excuse to distance themselves from people like the BNP.
 
But they're talking about "left-wing traditions of fascism" here, which is basically attempting to say "Hitler was left-wing". Which is cock. It's not about the modern BNP, it's about trying to associate fascism and Nazism with left-wing politics and by extension modern left-wing politics, which is a specific talking point from the US right, albeit quite an old one which rarely gets used any more (apart from by out of touch student Tories apparently).
 
In B4: The Nazis were a left-wing party. It's just the standard propaganda designed to lie to idiots.... if we can convince them that only the left have ever been fascists, we can dismiss any fascists as being of the left even when they were clearly rightist, and with any luck enough people will believe us.

They're just another set of lying shitbags intent on keeping people ill-informed and divided in order to try and gain power. What's new about that?
 
Well I think they're applying the same "sliding scale" approach to historical fascism. Historically (and again with a few exceptions), fascism has been very left wing economically. The line is even more blurred when you look at the Arab states since independence. Pan Arab Nationalism was always considered a left wing ideology, but look at the military governments that developed - authoritarian dictatorships (and in Saddam's case with a habit of ethnic cleansing). These regimes, to me anyway, resemble fascism more than "left wing" governments like Sweden for example!

It's just an argument over semantics at the end of the day, ie, completely meaningless. The BNP should be opposed no matter what label is attached to them - nobody wants to be associated with the BNP, so the left don't want them being labelled as left, and the right don't want them being labelled as right. There's an argument for both but historically the left seem to have won the battle and fascism is now regarded as "right".
 
Trying to associate BNP politics with the moderate "left wing" is not really any more naughty than trying to associate it with the moderate "right wing" in my opinion.

What CyberRose said, really.
 
What of the various historical fasicst economic programs was left wing then?

edit: actually, no i've better things to do than this nonsense again.
 
It's just semantics and political bollocks. Nobody wants to associate themselves with the BNP and everybody wants to smear their opponents with association with the BNP. The same happens with the word "terrorist". It means nothing and doesn't mean in any way that the BNP should not be opposed
 
The "left wing" policies that fascist parties adopt are generally only fig leaves for their real agenda.
 
How Franco's Spain and Pinochet's Chile could be described as left wing I don't know. If anyone wants a go at explaining I'd be well interested.
 
BNP want to hand out assualt rifles
and reunite ireland with the UK .
without the nasty thugs and racsimn they'd be ignored as nutters.
they don't even have any dress sense:hmm:
 
I've has such a convesation online with a dim fellow before....

He: Hitler was left wing: He was a national socialist. His party was the National Socialist German Workers Party, you asshole!
Me: So, by your logic, Soviet era East Germany was democratic, because they called themselves the German Democratic Republic?
He: Of course not! They were commies, asshole...

and so on....
 
Yep in America a lot of people tend to lump fascism and communism in the same category, but that's because of the examples in history, not because they've analysed the beliefs of both ideologies and come to the conclusion they're the same! Admittedly, if Hitler had called his party the German Phalange or something other than "socialist" the comparison might never have been made. They'd just have been examples of totalitarianism/authoritarianism. And also, Hitler is the uber-fascist and is the ultimate comparison to anything anyone disagrees with. Any similarities with anything Hitler did and opponents will make accusations of fascism. Hitler was authoritarian, so was Stalin, therefore, communism is fascist. Israel oppresses a people, so did Hitler, therefore, Israel is fascist.

The Tory who is the topic of this thread went through a similar process. The BNP are left wing economically, so were some historical fascists, therefore fascism originated out of the left. Obviously there is no "left wing fascist tradition" but as I said in my first post, when various labels have negative connotations attached to them, everybody goes out of their way to distance themselves from that label and attempt to attach that label to their opponents. The Tory is attempting to distance the "right" from the negative "far right" by going full circle and instead attaching it to the "left" (their opponents). The same thing happens with the word "terrorist".

It really is just an argument over semantics and probably has less to do with opposing the BNP than it does smearing political opponents...
 
Pinochet's Chile

Yes, Pinochet though also drafted in Milton Friedmans Chicago boys though to help reform his economy, other totalitarian states such as the USSR have drawn their economic policy along a command economy line.

If you think of the far right economically as being laissez-faire, limited regulations, no government intervention in the marketplace and far left as being a command economy, then you could argue that Hitler was on this scale towards the left.

However really we should be looking at it from a political compass style layout:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
 
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