Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins

[bimble]

Does 'road management' there mean closing roads?

 

[irf520]

Does 'road management' there mean closing roads?

Yes. Estreham Road is, I believe, the one on the chopping block there.

 

[irf520]

In line the the new extraterrestrial paranoia now becoming fashionable on this thread, I am forced to reveal a surprising communication from beyond......

A former Lambeth councillor rang me yesterday having looked LJAG up using some company information service. He had discovered I was formerly a director of LJAG and wanted information. Information about who earth various other directors were, what LJAG was, why the last AGM apparently had only 5 people in attendance and on and on.

The nub of the matter was the guy had a number of friends whose commute into London had now become impossible and he moreover had been late for a Bartok concert at the Royal Festival Hall.

Apparently the more elevated types round Brockwell Park (who I understand include judges, lords, doctors etc) don't take kindly to LJAG disrupting their schedules. They jumped to the conclusion that LJAG are in fact trouble-making PLEBS.

I tried to put the guy right, and even asked him whether he had actually driven down here since Sunday, when he went into a rant about never mind that, now people have to drive through Brixton or Camberwell which is absolutely impossible hell and takes hours.

I find it ironic I am put in the position of defending Ljag AND also LETRA etc by alien outisde forces.
View attachment 79140 Herne Hill alien on the line!

You should put him in touch with Mr T who will be happy to explain to him that he would have no trouble reaching his Bartok concert in good time if he were to cycle to the Royal Festival Hall, and also explain to the judges and lords that they don't NEED to drive into central London (either for work or for Bartok) and that they should cycle or take the tube/bus/train along with the great unwashed. Well, maybe not the bus since that could get stuck in traffic. It would be entertaining to see their reaction.

 

[prunus]

You should put him in touch with Mr T who will be happy to explain to him that he would have no trouble reaching his Bartok concert in good time if he were to cycle to the Royal Festival Hall, and also explain to the judges and lords that they don't NEED to drive into central London (either for work or for Bartok) and that they should cycle or take the tube/bus/train along with the great unwashed. Well, maybe not the bus since that could get stuck in traffic. It would be entertaining to see their reaction.

I know you're being slightly tongue-in-cheek, but really it is difficult to find sympathy for people who feel they have to drive into central London from Herne Hill, which has frequent regular train services into both the city (and beyond) AND the west end.

And the RFH - that one next to Waterloo station, the major transport hub, is that the one he means?

Absolutely of *course* you should be able to drive through our area (doors tightly locked mind), adding noise, danger and pollution to our proletarian lives, in order to reach these places.

The sense of entitlement is nauseating.

 

[bimble]

.

 

[prunus]

wait. why I am included in that ? is it because of ' if i were the boss of things?

Just quoting error, possibly because of dodgy signal as I, appositely enough, travelled into work on the thameslink . Fixed now.

 

[irf520]

And the RFH - that one next to Waterloo station, the major transport hub, is that the one he means?

I guess so. Is there another one?

adding noise, danger and pollution to our proletarian lives,

Maybe their lordships use electric cars and drive (or are chauffeured) like Miss Daisy?

 

[CH1]

The sense of entitlement is nauseating.

I think most of these diesel driving 4WD fans are doing just the same. Its just that you don't know where they come from. Some could even come from the Loughborough Estate!

Whatever happened to the idea of mini cars BTW?

And as for diesel - apart from poisoning the air it's caused the lay off of thousands of South African platinum miners.

 

[bimble]

Bit of a dead end maybe, the painting of all car drivers as selfish polluting bastards.. if I had a car that was to me a necessity for whatever reason I'd be really pissed off being caricatured as the enemy.

 

[irf520]

Whatever happened to the idea of mini cars BTW?

You do occasionally see those little 'smart' cars that can park perpendicular to the kerb instead of parallel to it. But is there is even enough space inside to fit your weekly shopping? I guess that's the problem. You're not going to have two cars, so the one you have needs to be suitable for all scenarios, even if some of them only occur rarely.

 

[CH1]

You do occasionally see those little 'smart' cars that can park perpendicular to the kerb instead of parallel to it. But is there is even enough space inside to fit your weekly shopping? I guess that's the problem. You're not going to have two cars, so the one you have needs to be suitable for all scenarios, even if some of them only occur rarely.

Maybe Zak will do for such devices what Boris has done for the bike? [message sponsored by VW]

 

[CH1]

Bit of a dead end maybe, the painting of all car drivers as selfish polluting bastards.. if I had a car that was to me a necessity for whatever reason I'd be really pissed off being caricatured as the enemy.

I think this is off message actually. There are plenty of BMW driving black men around, and also chic molls over made-up like drag queens, but I reckon the majority of "big car" useage is white and quite affluent. And not hipsters either.

 

[teuchter]

Car clubs don't get much of a mention here. Now widely available all over London, and affordable (certainly relative to the cost of owning a car). They can be used for things like weekly shopping.

 

[teuchter]

In line the the new extraterrestrial paranoia now becoming fashionable on this thread, I am forced to reveal a surprising communication from beyond......

A former Lambeth councillor rang me yesterday having looked LJAG up using some company information service. He had discovered I was formerly a director of LJAG and wanted information. Information about who earth various other directors were, what LJAG was, why the last AGM apparently had only 5 people in attendance and on and on.

The nub of the matter was the guy had a number of friends whose commute into London had now become impossible and he moreover had been late for a Bartok concert at the Royal Festival Hall.

Apparently the more elevated types round Brockwell Park (who I understand include judges, lords, doctors etc) don't take kindly to LJAG disrupting their schedules. They jumped to the conclusion that LJAG are in fact trouble-making PLEBS.

I tried to put the guy right, and even asked him whether he had actually driven down here since Sunday, when he went into a rant about never mind that, now people have to drive through Brixton or Camberwell which is absolutely impossible hell and takes hours.

I find it ironic I am put in the position of defending Ljag AND also LETRA etc by alien outisde forces.
View attachment 79140 Herne Hill alien on the line!

Doesn't surprise me at all.

No-one's commented on my post pointing out that about half of the signatories of the initial 750-strong anti-closures petition were from outside the consultation area.

 

[bimble]

I think this is off message actually. There are plenty of BMW driving black men around, and also chic molls over made-up like drag queens, but I reckon the majority of "big car" useage is white and quite affluent. And not hipsters either.

oh dear. I didn't mean it in that way, quite the opposite - was trying to suggest that the idea of all these selfish drivers going around polluting the place with their windows up just for the self indulgent fun of it might not be quite fair. I know the people in the video probably aren't into Bartok but still.

 

[irf520]

I'm still laughing at the thought of some lord or high court judge getting on the 68 from Herne Hill to Waterloo, sitting down and getting chewing gum on his Savile Row suit and being asked, "You got a spare cigarette, mate" by some chancer. Then getting the bus back with all the pissheads and someone sparking up a crafty spliff at the back.

 

[teuchter]

They don't even need to do that - 15mins on the train to Blackfriars then an enjoyable and very civilised stroll along the south bank to the RFH.

 

[AlexH]

Doesn't surprise me at all.

No-one's commented on my post pointing out that about half of the signatories of the initial 750-strong anti-closures petition were from outside the consultation area.

A function of the fact that the consultation area was too small and local people affected by the closure were outside that area and should have been consulted but were not - hence the anger. You should also remember that many of the so called majority who responded to the official consultation were cyclists and campaigners etc who had no connection to the area at all!

 

[critical1]

Labour are rowing back on road management in Streatham St Leonards.-extract from Labour blog below......

As this is split ward with one Green councillor I wonder what he will do? Official Green policy would suggest he would be calling for immediate implementation. Could this be one place at least where party policy is deflected by local opinion?

The Green councillor would be asking for the cycle way, but also demanding a proper and fair consultation, I don't believe the Green party are fascists like so many other parties such as the Blue Labour Lambeth Council we currently have installed.

 

[teuchter]

A function of the fact that the consultation area was too small and local people affected by the closure were outside that area and should have been consulted but were not - hence the anger. You should also remember that many of the so called majority who responded to the official consultation were cyclists and campaigners etc who had no connection to the area at all!

Cyclists who travel through the area and responded to the consultation are no diferent to drivers who travel through the area and signed the petition. One group's participation in this is just as valid or invalid as the other's.

 

[CH1]

A function of the fact that the consultation area was too small and local people affected by the closure were outside that area and should have been consulted but were not - hence the anger. You should also remember that many of the so called majority who responded to the official consultation were cyclists and campaigners etc who had no connection to the area at all!

That's what the councillor said more or less. But how far do you go?

I remember Linda Bellos (bless) complaining that Lambeth had not consulted the black community of Lambeth now living in Thornton Heath about how they wanted the Black Cultural Archives to proceed.

 

[CH1]

oh dear. I didn't mean it in that way, quite the opposite - was trying to suggest that the idea of all these selfish drivers going around polluting the place with their windows up just for the self indulgent fun of it might not be quite fair. I know the people in the video probably aren't into Bartok but still.

Oh - I thought you were highlighting the macho side of all this.
Whereas we had already established it was to a large degree school runs I thought.

 

[bimble]

They don't even need to do that - 15mins on the train to Blackfriars then an enjoyable and very civilised stroll along the south bank to the RFH.

It's true, did that the other evening. Blackfriars is a beautiful station.

 

[LadyV]

Cyclists who travel through the area and responded to the consultation are no diferent to drivers who travel through the area and signed the petition. One group's participation in this is just as valid or invalid as the other's.

True I guess they balance each other out

Some ways to ensure that it's locals who respond would be
a) go door knocking but that would cost a fortune
b) paper surveys with postage paid reply envelopes, also cost a fortune
c) or individual surveys per households with a personalised code that would allow you to do it online, similar to the electoral role register forms we get, no doubt also costs a fortune

 

[bimble]

True I guess they balance each other out

Some ways to ensure that it's locals who respond would be
a) go door knocking but that would cost a fortune
b) paper surveys with postage paid reply envelopes, also cost a fortune
c) or individual surveys per households with a personalised code that would allow you to do it online, similar to the electoral role register forms we get, no doubt also costs a fortune

I do think that the initial consultation here could have been a lot better without huge expense: Just a few well placed posters locally, clearly announcing what was being considered and telling people where and when the consultation events were going to be might have helped a lot.

 

[LadyV]

I do think that the initial consultation here could have been a lot better without huge expense: Just a few well placed posters locally, clearly announcing what was being considered and telling people where and when the consultation events were going to be might have helped a lot.

Yeah you're right. Personally I also think there's been far too much reliance placed on the internet in all of this, most announcements about events have been via posts on forums or websites. Most of the original consultation was online I think, there may have been a paper version, I can't remember. Given the reported levels of poverty in the area, I think it was wrong for the Lambeth to assume that everyone would be able to participate in the consultation.

 

[teuchter]

True I guess they balance each other out

Some ways to ensure that it's locals who respond would be
a) go door knocking but that would cost a fortune
b) paper surveys with postage paid reply envelopes, also cost a fortune
c) or individual surveys per households with a personalised code that would allow you to do it online, similar to the electoral role register forms we get, no doubt also costs a fortune

The official consultation did take a record of people's postcodes. Hence, how we know how many respondees were from outside the area. Easy to forget in all this discussion, but amongst the respondees from within the area, the majority were still in favour of the trial. I know there are problems with whether everyone in the local area actually knew about the consultation, but it's worth remembering that if you take all of the "cyclists from other places" out of the equation, the survey still returns a majority in favour.

 

[teuchter]

Yeah you're right. Personally I also think there's been far too much reliance placed on the internet in all of this, most announcements about events have been via posts on forums or websites. Most of the original consultation was online I think, there may have been a paper version, I can't remember. Given the reported levels of poverty in the area, I think it was wrong for the Lambeth to assume that everyone would be able to participate in the consultation.

According to Lambeth, paper version was available at teh exhibition and four separate on-street events.

 

[bimble]

It must be number 3 on that list which I saw.
Yes, they did have a paper copy of the questionnaire there, the two very embattled looking young people with a folding table.

 

[critical1]

Car clubs don't get much of a mention here. Now widely available all over London, and affordable (certainly relative to the cost of owning a car). They can be used for things like weekly shopping.

Not all at the same time though.. Saturdays will be fraught....