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Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins

Very curious: Why do you single out Gordon Grove as a keeper?
That's the closure just outside my window and personally I've noticed no positives from it as yet (just lots of large vehicles, many of them related to the scrapyard business, forced to do tricky turns).
Yeah, that's a big part of why it's closed I think, nowadays it would have to be staffed at all times whilst open apparently.
Apparently not enough money around to staff it and there is talk of moving it back over to the park, the strange doc teuchter produced states a green area on the road between park and the adventure playground??
What about the lorries for the scapyard??
 
Apparently not enough money around to staff it and there is talk of moving it back over to the park, the strange doc teuchter produced states a green area on the road between park and the adventure playground??

I seem to remember at one point they wanted to block Gordon Grove further up towards Minet Rd until they realised that the bridge was too low to allow the required access to the scrapyard.
 
Quite the opposite. I am saying that it can be used by gentry to park their kids whilst they have a nice steak, or whatever people do in bistros.
Who's to lose. They could employ some unemployed people as volunteers to ensure health and safety at the adventure playground.
And some administrators to run police checks on them.

It is trickle down economics red in tooth and claw.
I thought I was a cynic. The last time the place was open was 8th August, a four year old's birthday party with full dj set playing old Jamaican tunes.
 
Apparently not enough money around to staff it and there is talk of moving it back over to the park, the strange doc teuchter produced states a green area on the road between park and the adventure playground??
Loughborough residents could lobby to reinstate the original concept of the New Loughborough Estate.
Nouveau Le Corbusier walkways in the sky floating over the fields.
Turn it into a world heritage site for tourists.
Who then flock to the bistros when they are exhausted from sight seeing social housing as it was in mid 20th century Europe.

Then EVERYWHERE could be green spaces - as intended by the LCC architects.
 
I thought I was a cynic. The last time the place was open was 8th August, a four year old's birthday party with full dj set playing old Jamaican tunes.
How many days this year? One birthday party sounds a bit minimalist.
 
Well .. exactly. But (if I understand you correctly) that's all to the good else it would just encourage bistros.
 
Well .. exactly. But (if I understand you correctly) that's all to the good else it would just encourage bistros.
You keep getting me wrong. You really should have gone to that exhibition yesterday or Monday.
Didn't go down too well on Brixton Buzz mind (talking of comments here).
 
You have totally confused me its true.. so you are saying that more people eating steaks in bistros is exactly what we need. ok.
 
As a matter of interest what do they do about the car breakers?
Is it that car breakers are welcome in the green belt but not houses?
Just asking.

A friend once took me on a tour (20 years or more ago) of Rainham Marshes. Totes-Amazing-Balls. It was like a cross between "Escape from New York" and "Peter Grimes".

I'm wondering if we are making the most of our local industry. Use it or lose it they say.

[teuchter please look away now]
P8160035.jpg
 
A thing with 18 sides is almost a circle, right?

That document teuchter found is very interesting, the one that has disappeared and only exists now as a cached google shadow thing.

It's interesting because of the first paragraph, called 'background', which very clearly says that this is a measure designed to encourage cycling by making local journeys more difficult by car etc.
It doesn't say anything at all about 'a meaningful town centre'.
That bit, seemingly the key intention inspiration behind the closures, has been excised totally form all subsequent publicity / information about the closures.

The doc goes on to say 'it is anticipated that the whole area bounded by Camberwell New Rd, Denmark rd , Coldharbour Lane and Brixton Road will see a reduction in motor traffic though some roads may see an increase in local access traffic'.
Which has also never been mentioned in any of the council's communications about the closures that I've ever seen.

Why? I'm really stumped as to why the council would choose to go ahead with a plan that was (it now seems) designed for one purpose but present it so differently, sticking to the dogged repetition of that line about 'a meaningful town centre' and so on.
:confused:
Aargh! Is it too much to ask, to actually look at the information provided, the information I've provided a link to twice already?

It is not true that that original document doesn't talk about the public space. It talks about it on the first page. Is no-one actually interested in looking at the facts of what was proposed when?

Screen Shot 2015-11-04 at 10.49.25.jpg
 
Keep your hair on, I was just talking about the 1st bit, the 'background' paragraph, which explains the wider context of the scheme making it make sense in a way I had not ever seen before.
 
I think the one thing that all the 18 opposing sides in this debate can agree on is that communication from the authorities has been dire throughout.
Yes. Looking through the appendices document it contained a much showing the boundary of the consultation area. I am within it, and I'm fairly sure I never received the initial info leaflet. I've also not recieved any of the leaflets supposedly sent out this week. If it's true that whoever Lambeth is employing to distribute them has just been dumping them on the street then they really need to sort this out. They need to not pay them, and do it again with someone else.
 
Keep your hair on, I was just talking about the 1st bit, the 'background' paragraph.
No you weren't - you said

why the council would choose to go ahead with a plan that was (it now seems) designed for one purpose but present it so differently, sticking to the dogged repetition of that line about 'a meaningful town centre' and so on

This is untrue.
 
Aargh!...
It is not true that that original document doesn't talk about the public space. It talks about it on the first page. Is no-one actually interested in looking at the facts of what was proposed when?View attachment 79099

Is it too much to ask What date was it proposed on? as it appears Lambeth and you don't want us to know the FACTS you presented?
All traces of dates removed, No original document? bit strange eh!

I don't expect the original will ever be found.. Evidence NOT.

quote324_large.jpg
 
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Which camera? The tall small topped one by the Farm?
Yes, that one, for the last couple of weeks it was firmly pointed towards the start of the pedestrian area, I wondered if it had been commandeered by the council as a traffic cam but it's now pointing the other way
 
This is untrue.
Grr.
I will try to explain: In all the published things I have ever seen from the council about these road closures, apart from the document you found yesterday, I have never seen the closures explained as part of a wider cycling and car reduction agenda.
Everything I've read has said the same thing over & over. Namely: This is intended to create a meaningful town centre & to improve the public space in LJ.
eg
Screen Shot 2015-11-04 at 11.09.58.png


& this Loughborough junction - what you need to know | Lambeth Council
etc etc

I would have been much happier if it had been explained to me from the start that this was part of a far bigger story and was aimed primarily at encouraging people to cycle instead of drive. That's all.
 
I have never heard of a warning in relation to a Statutory Penalty Notice, but that's all I've heard so far a lot of WARNINGS unheard of really.

Loads of cars going through day and night, the real Cash Cow methinks..

I would imagine that there have been quite a few fines landing on people's door mats but only if the car was there to catch them, I walk past the pedestrian zone twice a day almost every day and there are no other cameras there, if there were, why the need for the car! Still not been brave enough to risk it myself just in case though, I could do without having to pay a fine this month!

As for a cash cow, indeed very much so, shame they haven't done it properly though, ie with a fixed camera, because for the amount of cars I see going through there, they would have had potential to collect near on a million pounds by now. But as there seems to only be the car collecting number plates, that amount will be much much less, another example of Lambeth's incompetence.
 
Grr.
I will try to explain: In all the published things I have ever seen from the council about these road closures, apart from the document you found yesterday, I have never seen the closures explained as part of a wider cycling and car reduction agenda.
Everything I've read has said the same thing over & over. Namely: This is intended to create a meaningful town centre & to improve the public space in LJ.
eg
View attachment 79101


& this Loughborough junction - what you need to know | Lambeth Council
etc etc

I would have been much happier if it had been explained to me from the start that this was part of a far bigger story and was aimed primarily at encouraging people to cycle instead of drive. That's all.
I'm not sure that's entirely true - this is on their current "what you need to know" page

What road closures have been proposed?
We are proposing an experimental closure of Loughborough Road just north of its junction with Ridgeway Road. This would result in a huge reduction in motor vehicles using this area – our studies show that it is currently used by around 13,000 vehicles each week day. This will enable us to change the way the space works to benefit businesses, pedestrians and cyclists and create a space to hold outdoor events.

Additional road closures are necessary so that motor traffic does not use the next available roads either side of Loughborough Road. It is therefore proposed that the following roads are also part of the experimental road closures (please also refer to the map attached) - Barrington Road - Calais Street - Padfield Road - Lilford Road - Gordon Grove

Can’t the improvements take place without the need to close roads?
While it’s true that the public space improvements could be introduced without road closures, the high volumes of through traffic using Loughborough Road would dominate the new town centre meaning there would be less scope for public space enhancements. The proposed closures of additional roads in the surrounding area are necessary so that traffic is not simply displaced into the roads either side of Loughborough Road. The closures fit with the Council’s manifesto commitments for a cleaner and greener borough – and to be the best borough for cyclists.
 
I would imagine that there have been quite a few fines landing on people's door mats but only if the car was there to catch them, I walk past the pedestrian zone twice a day almost every day and there are no other cameras there, if there were, why the need for the car! Still not been brave enough to risk it myself just in case though, I could do without having to pay a fine this month!

As for a cash cow, indeed very much so, shame they haven't done it properly though, ie with a fixed camera, because for the amount of cars I see going through there, they would have had potential to collect near on a million pounds by now. But as there seems to only be the car collecting number plates, that amount will be much much less, another example of Lambeth's incompetence.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have decided not to actually prosecute anyone, so as not to further enrage people in what's already a rather tense situation.
 
Keep your hair on, I was just talking about the 1st bit, the 'background' paragraph, which explains the wider context of the scheme making it make sense in a way I had not ever seen before.
The 3rd para of what he posted up now says they want to make the road narrower, not close it.
 
I'm not sure that's entirely true - this is on their current "what you need to know" page
I'm glad you agree that it is at least mostly true though.
You've been saying this all along, that the road closure must be seen as part of a wider agenda to discourage car use and push people towards alternatives. Why do you think the council (almost entirely) banished this from their published literature on the project?
Honestly, if this had been plainly stated from the start I'd have found the whole thing much easier to understand.
 
Yes, that one, for the last couple of weeks it was firmly pointed towards the start of the pedestrian area, I wondered if it had been commandeered by the council as a traffic cam but it's now pointing the other way
They were using it for decoy purposes.
 
The 3rd para of what he posted up now says they want to make the road narrower, not close it.
No, as I understand it that is referring to the junction, not the closed section. So the short section on the S side of the bridge provided for access to Rathgar rd etc.
 
The whole thing is just so peculiar, what with teuchter 's document looking like dali had a go at itScreen Shot 2015-11-04 at 12.08.17.png

& how searching for it now only leading you to this..


Screen Shot 2015-11-04 at 12.10.53.png
 
No, as I understand it that is referring to the junction, not the closed section. So the short section on the S side of the bridge provided for access to Rathgar rd etc.
I see that would make Loughborough Road less of a temptation for the north-bound commuter.
 
The whole thing is just so peculiar, what with teuchter 's document looking like dali had a go at itView attachment 79109

& how searching for it now only leading you to this..


View attachment 79110
I think they should have that original proposal material up on the general info page. However I can see that maybe they decided not to so as to avoid confusion, with people looking at the original proposals and assuming that was what's going to be inplemented, rather than the scheme as revised following the consultation process.
 
I think they should have that original proposal material up on the general info page. However I can see that maybe they decided not to so as to avoid confusion, with people looking at the original proposals and assuming that was what's going to be inplemented, rather than the scheme as revised following the consultation process.
Apart from the P5 bus route being kept where it is after the consultation showed strong resistance to the proposal to move it, has anything else changed (apart from the way the intention behind it is explained ?)
 
I think they should have that original proposal material up on the general info page. However I can see that maybe they decided not to so as to avoid confusion, with people looking at the original proposals and assuming that was what's going to be inplemented, rather than the scheme as revised following the consultation process.

Is it too much to ask What date was it proposed on? as it appears Lambeth and you don't want us to know the FACTS you presented?
All traces of dates removed, No original document? bit strange eh!

I don't expect the original will ever be found.. Evidence NOT.

tales-of-top-ten_1296972951.jpg
 
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