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Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins

What would have happened - just throwing this out there to show I'm not opposed to idealism and change - What would have happened if instead of shutting Loughborough Road they'd closed some of the most important central shopping & walking street and our existing version of a 'meaningful town centre' , (apart from buses emergency vehicles & bikes). Like some of this yellow bit, for instance .

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EDIT. I know this is an impossible idea but it's fun just to imagine a change that would really transform LJ into a place not dominated by traffic.
 
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I missed that box ticking opportunity. Still don't understand why that sort of thing was not tried at Loughborough Road though, that plus lets see what 20mph does next month.
It was - they had a ballot box at the Angell Road place. Someone interviewed me as I was voting. At that time my main concern was they wanted to divert the P5 bus. I mentioned that on my ballot, and also to the student person filming. I don't think anyone else turned up to vote when I was there.

The consultation result was written up/tabulated here: https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/de...ments-consultation-report-2015-APPENDICES.pdf
 
What would have happened - just throwing this out there to show I'm not opposed to idealism and change - What would have happened if instead of shutting Loughborough Road they'd closed the most important central shopping & walking street and our existing version of a 'meaningful town centre' , (apart from buses emergency vehicles & bikes). Like this bit, for instance .

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Not possible. No alternative route suitable for that volume of traffic.
Would make my bit of CHL much quieter - though not completely. You only get that (almost) on Christmas Day when there are no buses or trains.
 
It was - they had a ballot box at the Angell Road place. Someone interviewed me as I was voting. At that time my main concern was they wanted to divert the P5 bus. I mentioned that on my ballot, and also to the student person filming. I don't think anyone else turned up to vote when I was there.

The consultation result was written up/tabulated here: https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/de...ments-consultation-report-2015-APPENDICES.pdf
I'm confused - what is the difference between what you've put up there and this thing? http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/doc...on_Public_Realm_Improvements_Report FINAL.pdf
 
Not possible. No alternative route suitable for that volume of traffic.
Would make my bit of CHL much quieter - though not completely. You only get that (almost) on Christmas Day when there are no buses or trains.
No, I understand it's an impossible idea. Just enjoyed imagining for a moment a change that would really transform central LJ into a place not dominated by traffic.
 
It certainly does. Don't mention the G word.
Don't know what you mean.

The body of your report is written in council-style with numbered paragraphs, but seems to be a report of LJAG or written by them. The visuals are very LJAG. Can't see the usual council authorisation bit, e.g.:

Report Authorised by: Helen Charlesworth–May, Strategic Director: Commissioning

I think the appendices I put up is the bare info and your report contains the worked-up fully spinned version.

By the way the figures don't add up. In the appendices there were 299 respondents INSIDE the "consultation area" and 268 from outside.

Total = 567 yet in your version they also add in 66 people (or ghost voters) who did not declare where they lived).
 
By the way the figures don't add up. In the appendices there were 299 respondents INSIDE the "consultation area" and 268 from outside.
Total = 567 yet in your version they also add in 66 people (or ghost voters) who did not declare where they lived).

You're right.
And the next step was to transform ALL the participants into "residents" , thus arriving at the handy quote "68% of residents in favour'.
 
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A few loading bays for service vehicles are justified. But bumper-to-bumper on-street parking on such a busy yet narrow road is madness.

And tradesmen and residents manage. I lived until very recently on a road where there was no parking 8-6 Monday-Sunday. You learn which roads are nearby with resident parking and trades just have to either drop off their equipment and park elsewhere, or carry it a short distance whilst you provide them with a visitors parking permit. It's awkward sometimes but entirely manageable.
 
The gordon grove scrapyard quandry continues. . are they going to do a U-turn once they attached the red wreck? I will keep you posted. (maybe they'll just evaporate)
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I got out my OS maps of Brixton and measured the carriageway. Coldharbour lane is a 9-10m wide road, kerb-to-kerb, with the potential to grab another 1.5m from the pavements if they're narrowed to the 2m minimum. Here's an extract from TfL's own design guide:

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Loading bays can be integrated into such a layout by narrowing the pavement to 2m and the cycle lane to 1.5m, thus gaining a whole extra 3m of width. The same applies to bus stops. Here's the bit just West of the first railway bridge, at the junction of Shakespeare Road.

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Even the narrow bit the other side of the bridge can be made to work.

upload_2015-10-29_10-14-43.png

It just takes the will to remove car parking from this road.
 
I can definitely see how that would help with the problem of people not being able to get out of the way of blue light vehicles when CHL is solid.
 
They'd come here - to the side streets off CHL, and they'd have to pay to park and then carry their things down the road?
 
I can't find where I got it from now but I believe George Wright said he has £80,000 (!) that he needs to spend before the end of the year or lose it.
 
I can't find where I got it from now but I believe George Wright said he has £80,000 (!) that he needs to spend before the end of the year or lose it.

God help us. Just think how many giant size flower pots and/or no entry signs he could buy with that ...
 
if a restriction is introduced which then needs another 10 restrictions to make it work I would say you are venturing into a regime of excessive control.

If such great lengths are required to stop inappropriate streets being overwhelmed by cut-through traffic, I'd ask what the fundamental problem is - and my answer would be that it's the traffic itself, not the attempts to calm it.

I get the basic principle of what you are saying - if a system needs ever more additions to make its central aim work, it's an indication that it's not a good system ("there was an old woman who swallowed a fly").

But from my viewpoint it's an indication that our system of giving motor vehicles assumed priority in urban residential areas is not a good one. Just look at the massive amount of infrastructure that's required to allow us to co-exist with motor traffic. All the road markings, rules of the road, testing, signage, traffic lights, complicated parking zones, emergency response systems, enforcement agencies etc. As Brixton Hatter said, roads haven't always been the domain of vehicles travelling at such a speed that they can kill you if you step out in front of them, and there's no reason they should remain so.

Does a laissez-faire approach where we just trust drivers to take into account the effects of their journeys on others work? No it doesn't. People ignore speed limits when they can get away with it, and they will take short cuts through small residential streets if it makes their journey a bit faster. This is the problem that these measures are trying to solve. To fight against this tide at a local level, it's currently necessary to implement complicated closure schemes. The other solution would be to try and move towards a city where motor traffic didn't dominate - where motor vehicles were only used where actually necessary. That would make it less necessary to be constantly fighting the traffic - with much-reduced levels of traffic and less of a presumption of priority, a more hands-off approach could work. I know plenty of people reading this will freak out at the idea of such a city, saying it's idealistic and completely inpractical, but other places have taken steps in that direction - and it works just fine, on the whole.

It's a shame such an ideal is considered impossibly radical even on urban75.
 
I got out my OS maps of Brixton and measured the carriageway. Coldharbour lane is a 9-10m wide road, kerb-to-kerb, with the potential to grab another 1.5m from the pavements if they're narrowed to the 2m minimum. Here's an extract from TfL's own design guide:


Loading bays can be integrated into such a layout by narrowing the pavement to 2m and the cycle lane to 1.5m, thus gaining a whole extra 3m of width. The same applies to bus stops. Here's the bit just West of the first railway bridge, at the junction of Shakespeare Road.



Even the narrow bit the other side of the bridge can be made to work.



It just takes the will to remove car parking from this road.

Does their design guide give minimum dimensions for two-way traffic plus a bus lane in one direction?
 
Each lane should be at least 10' wide. Maximum standard vehicle width is 9'6" - anything over that is an abnormal.
 
We'll need the Gordon Grove scrapyard to survive just a bit longer then.
(It's amazing in there, the cars get stacked vertically, good view from the top of the adventure playground)
 
So, quite feasible for CHL.
No problem at all. Although one-sided bus lanes are more appropriate for radial routes (where the morning peak is more concentrated than the evening one). CHL is orbital and equally busy in both directions.
 
If you look at the amazing ( NOT) planters built, I take it by LJAG'ers and that now reside along the front of the entrance to Loughborough Junction Station, they have in them assorted weeds amongst odd plants, black soot on their leaves, and most are in decay, who is taking care of them?
The ones at the front of the shops by the Hero of Switzerland, rubbish and weeds fill them, one is falling apart, the ones at the front of Loughborough Primary School, huge array of very tall weeds and some very long thorns on some nasty looking thing. You have to know projects like this can be maintained and by who and at what cost. These pop parks might seem a great idea to a few but they take working bodies to upkeep them. Free working bodies! As for Acorn well they had the feel of a suspicious sect from the USA. COMMUNITY ORGANISING FOR SOCIAL CHANGE you have to pay to be a volunteer with them!
 
Got to admit, I watered a planter just the other day, here on Flaxman. I think that's the thing you look after them or they be bins.
 
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