Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins

[CH1]

I'm a cult leader who wants to kill people. Because I am pointing out (by providing photographic evidence) that the traffic mayhem, that some claim has resulted from this trial, doesn't actually exist.
Amazing.

Not kill - control. Like Comrade Bala you want to control a whole suburb!!
As for your photos - they look idyllic. But they are not representative.
You can stand there waiting for a gap in the traffic - just as other posters have posted photos of traffic congestion.

If your photos are valid, then so are theirs.

Stop spinning - we are in the age of new new Labour.

 

[bimble]

This is interesting (not to do with cars to do with industrial workspaces in London and how they are being squeezed out by council planning decisions)
https://justspacelondon.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/workspacehandbook_lowres.pdf

 

[LadyV]

Hasn't it always been the case that buses take ages to get from Gresham Rd to the tube station? This is why I hardly ever bother getting the bus to Brixton. It's generally quicker to walk and it's been like that for at least the last 5 years.

Also I can't see that traffic going from Gresham Rd towards Brixton is traffic that previously would have used another route. Traffic going along Gresham Rd and then turning right onto Brixton Rd towards Oval, yes, but not turning left.

Unless an increase in right-turning traffic is clogging the junction up generally.

Yes it has but not as much as it is right now. I don't know what's going on, I'm just sharing what I've seen. I don't know if it's an increase in people going down Gresham Road to go across to then go towards Oval or if it's just a backlog caused by the increase in traffic on Brixton Road, as I said just anecdata for the pot, not fact, just my opinion.

 

[teuchter]

This is interesting (not to do with cars to do with industrial workspaces in London and how they are being squeezed out by council planning decisions)
https://justspacelondon.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/workspacehandbook_lowres.pdf

Which is what happened at Higgs, but sadly there was not as much interest in that as there is in the traffic scheme.

As you will be bored of me saying by now.

 

[Angellic]

I wandered up Angell Rd at around 8.30am this morning and then onto Loughborough Rd. Passed St James's Crescent etc and it seemed fairly quiet.
No photographic evidence tho.

 

[teuchter]

Not kill - control. Like Comrade Bala you want to control a whole suburb!!
As for your photos - they look idyllic. But they are not representative.
You can stand there waiting for a gap in the traffic

You're right, I can wait for a gap, and it would be reasonable for people to assume that I may have done so. I've tried to take plenty of photos that show a long stretch of road. It is possible to do this when traffic is intermittent, but not in a steady stream that is being held up by congestion. So, it would be reasonable to assume that my photos could reflect intermittent traffic.

The words that have been used to describe traffic on some of these streets have included "gridlock", "chaos", and "havoc". If any of those were appropriate adjectives then I wouldn't have been able to take the photos I have.

The photos are deliberately taken at the busiest time of the day. You can see from the timing in the photo filenames that I have not had to stand there for 20 minutes waiting for an anomalous gap in a steady stream of traffic. In addition I can give you my word that walking along, say, St James Crescent, I did not observe a steady stream of traffic. I did not have to wait to take the images I did.

- just as other posters have posted photos of traffic congestion.

Where are these photos? For example, St James Crescent, or Angell Rd, Fyfield Rd or Barrington Rd? I haven't actually seen any. Other than that yotube video (which shows a standoff, not regular congetsion).

 

[irf520]

Which is what happened at Higgs, but sadly there was not as much interest in that as there is in the traffic scheme.

As you will be bored of me saying by now.

That's because people generally only react when something slaps them in the face. Like going out and being confronted with no entry signs which weren't there yesterday. The full horror of Higgs only becomes apparent once they start building it (or maybe once it's finished).

 

[bimble]

Which is what happened at Higgs, but sadly there was not as much interest in that as there is in the traffic scheme.
As you will be bored of me saying by now.

I think Higgs is an example of where I'm more cynical than you teuchter: Once the land was sold to the developers it never seemed likely to me that any amount of opposition would change the basics of what happens next, ie maximum return on investment through high density housing.

And the Mayor's target for new homes to be built in Lambeth over the next 10 years is 15,594 apparently, that's a lot of flats. https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2598_Redacted.pdf

 

[CH1]

Where are these photos? For example, St James Crescent, or Angell Rd, Fyfield Rd or Barrington Rd? I haven't actually seen any. Other than that yotube video (which shows a standoff, not regular congetsion).

Here's one of the exact junction I am complaining about Dr Pangloss

 

[teuchter]

That's a photo of an RTA at the junction, yes. Doesn't tell us anything except that an RTA happened there once, as they have happened at the LR junction in the past. But

Where are these photos? For example, St James Crescent, or Angell Rd, Fyfield Rd or Barrington Rd? I haven't actually seen any. Other than that yotube video (which shows a standoff, not regular congetsion).

 

[CH1]

That's a photo of an RTA at the junction, yes. Doesn't tell us anything except that an RTA happened there once, as they have happened at the LR junction in the past. But

If you look in the Brixton News/Gossip thread it was posted (not by me) around 24th October - one of three (of the aftermath of the same accident)

Of course it is just an accident that this accident happened to occur after the road closures were implemented. Obviously the driver was from Birmingham attending a domino tournament against Hastings at the Domino Club - I don't think.

I have no photos of traffic on the estate at all.
Does that mean that it didn't exist?

 

[teuchter]

I have no photos of traffic on the estate at all.
Does that mean that it didn't exist?

No - but you said in response to my photos of quiet streets on the estate at rush hour -

You can stand there waiting for a gap in the traffic - just as other posters have posted photos of traffic congestion.

If your photos are valid, then so are theirs.

Just wondering where those photos are. I don't remember seeing them. Apart from a rather vague one of someone's dashboard, with cars in the background, in the dark, on Denmark Rd (which I didn't include in my survey this morning).

 

[bimble]

Can't we just have faith please that the 12-15, or 26, or 71, .. official traffic counts done during the school holiday will settle this argument once and for all?

 

[critical1]

Morning rush hour. All these photos taken between 0800 and 0825.

View attachment 79543
CHL at station

That must have been the quickest 25mins ever, even I cant cover all those locations in 25mins.
I must say your photographic timing is impeccable I call rush hour 7:30 - 8:30am.
Did you take a random timing of your photos over the time period.

 

[critical1]

I'm a cult leader who wants to kill people. Because I am pointing out (by providing photographic evidence) that the traffic mayhem.........

Amazing.

Your so called evidence is contradicted by the amazing hundreds of photographs and videos depicting the contrary.
A pin in a haystack is irrelevant in this serious situation.

 

[fredfelt]

This may be of interest to some here - about 'Mini Holland' in Enfield - and the wider subject of reclaiming space for people, which was once reserved for people in cars.

Most people support the idea of a more cycling-friendly city

With London’s population growing by 120,000 a year, there are only two ways to stop the place coming to a halt. The first is to build more roads, which is politically (and physically) impossible. The second is to encourage more people on to vehicles such as bikes, which take less space.
​

 

[irf520]

This may be of interest to some here - about 'Mini Holland' in Enfield - and the wider subject of reclaiming space for people, which was once reserved for people in cars.

Most people support the idea of a more cycling-friendly city

With London’s population growing by 120,000 a year, there are only two ways to stop the place coming to a halt. The first is to build more roads, which is politically (and physically) impossible. The second is to encourage more people on to vehicles such as bikes, which take less space.
​

"Encourage" or force? By closing so many roads that the remaining ones are permanently jammed?

Maybe the problem is the population growth? It seems obvious that you can't keep cramming more and more people into an already crowded space.

 

[teuchter]

And here we go again....

 

[CH1]

This may be of interest to some here - about 'Mini Holland' in Enfield - and the wider subject of reclaiming space for people, which was once reserved for people in cars.
Most people support the idea of a more cycling-friendly city

With London’s population growing by 120,000 a year, there are only two ways to stop the place coming to a halt. The first is to build more roads, which is politically (and physically) impossible. The second is to encourage more people on to vehicles such as bikes, which take less space.
​

​

That man has blood on his hands. How can you trust someone extolling cycling schemes when they are apparently implicated in the death of a "source"?

 

[CH1]

"Encourage" or force? By closing so many roads that the remaining ones are permanently jammed?
Maybe the problem is the population growth? It seems obvious that you can't keep cramming more and more people into an already crowded space.

Maybe only men with vasectomies should be allowed to drive cars?
Might cut down on accidents at least.

 

[Crispy]

"Encourage" or force? By closing so many roads that the remaining ones are permanently jammed?

Maybe the problem is the population growth? It seems obvious that you can't keep cramming more and more people into an already crowded space.

London is not a very dense city.

https://files.lsecities.net/files/2011/11/2011_chw_2050_01.gif

 

[fredfelt]

​

That man has blood on his hands. How can you trust someone extolling cycling schemes when they are apparently implicated in the death of a "source"?

An ad hominem attack doesn't make his piece any less valid.

 

[bimble]

London is not a very dense city.

https://files.lsecities.net/files/2011/11/2011_chw_2050_01.gif

Because most of it is made up of rows upon rows of commuter houses.. with driveways , and garages ?

 

[Crispy]

Because most of it is made up of rows upon rows of commuter houses.. with driveways , and garages ?

Partly. But even inner London is not very dense. Look at the core of New York compared to London.

 

[bimble]

Partly. But even inner London is not very dense. Look at the core of New York compared to London.

Of course, yes. We're working on it though, with the new homes targets and all.

 

[irf520]

London is not a very dense city.

https://files.lsecities.net/files/2011/11/2011_chw_2050_01.gif

With the possible exception of New York, do we want it to resemble any of those other cities?

 

[bimble]

With the possible exception of New York, do we want it to resemble any of those other cities?

Most of new york looks similar to most of London; suburbia.
Manhattan is an island, not representative / comparable to anything really.

 

[teuchter]

Central Paris is much denser than most of London.

Of course, it's known as a horrible place to live.

 

[bimble]

Er..
Was it not 19th November that Braithwaite's big decision & the review data was supposed to be announced ?

The council's page on the closures now says "results should be known by 26th'.
Is this new?
Is it a misunderstanding?
Does it mean the results of the monkey survey and/or the car counting or does it mean her decision?

 

[CH1]

Er..
Was it not 19th November that Braithwaite's big decision & the review data was supposed to be announced ?
View attachment 79601

If they brought the end of the "consultation" forward from 13th to 6th November, surely we should be having the decision this very day?

How long does it take to cook the books?