Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins

[bimble]

This affects any traffic counts now on Coldharbour... Duh!

Or it would if they hadn't done the traffic counts already ( in the middle of half term remember).
The Higgs development is a lot bigger than the hotel. Are we going to have orange barriers shutting off coldharbour lane here to allow the developer's lorries in and out ?
edit: Yes, of course there will be road closures during the construction of Higgs.

 

[alcopop]

Coldharbour Lane outside the the dogstar today was packed all the way up to Hernhill due to road closure on top end of Coldharbour Lane.

This affects any traffic counts now on Coldharbour... Duh!

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That's why trials are run for a decent amount of time.

Everything will average out.

 

[critical1]

That's why trials are run for a decent amount of time.

Everything will average out.

Trial should then be for several years and several deaths of local business... end of trial, states FAIL compensation payouts...

 

[concerned1]

Average out? No. Businesses closed, a whole community broken up, additional hardship for many, all for a space on a road for the public who according to the Lambeth Walk results are not allowed on it anyway.

 

[bimble]

I think possibly that alcopop doesn't live in LJ.

 

[critical1]

Or it would if they hadn't done the traffic counts already ( in the middle of half term remember).......

alcopop... Does not even note that road counts are not supposed to be conducted during the school holidays! Average out indeed.

 

[prunus]

I am filled with genuine dread about the next bit, like the next couple of years when Higgs plus all the other massive developments are being built.

Agreed, the developments already going ahead are going to change LJ in far more and further reaching ways than The topic here. Personally I'd love it if the council would close the roads round me before the 4 years of construction traffic starts heading our way. Lambeth if you're listening - the northsiders want their roads reopened - can you close Hinton and Wanless and Wingmore et al instead please?

 

[bimble]

I know you've got a smiley face up there but (in seriousness) it's how CHL is going to function during these construction projects that's the bit I worry about, because seems to me that the fewer alternative routes there are for the construction traffic the worse it will be on that the main road for people on feet and buses and so on. Unless of course we just go for it properly and turn CHL into a tree lined cycles and buses only route, and let the developers use donkeys and rickshaws instead.

 

[critical1]

I know you've got a smiley face up there but (in seriousness) it's how CHL is going to function during these construction projects that's the bit I worry about, because seems to me that the fewer alternative routes there are for the construction traffic the worse it will be on that the main road for people on feet and buses and so on. Unless of course we just go for it properly and turn CHL into a tree lined cycles and buses only route, and let the developers use donkeys and rickshaws instead.

Nothing wrong with donkeys and rickshaws...

 

[prunus]

I know you've got a smiley face up there but (in seriousness) it's how CHL is going to function during these construction projects that's the bit I worry about, because seems to me that the fewer alternative routes there are for the construction traffic the worse it will be on that the main road for people on feet and buses and so on. Unless of course we just go for it properly and turn CHL into a tree lined cycles and buses only route, and let the developers use donkeys and rickshaws instead.

The smiley face was in acknowledgement that I was doing what I'd been exhorting others not to do - ie making an 'us-and-them' argument, albeit tongue in cheek.

The construction traffic would not in any case I suspect have been coming down Loughborough Road and the other closed roads - they're too small at the top. It'll be coming via CHL and i imagine Herne Hill Road too.

In light of that, the less other traffic there is in the area the better for all of us.

Obviously the official traffic counts will give us the actual answer when released, but anecdotally my feeling is there is definitely less traffic on CHL now than before LR was closed (now the lights are ok).

If that is in fact the case we should keep it shut to mitigate the disruption from the construction work.

A lot of ifs, I know, but at least it's logically consistent, and testable. So let's wait and find out

 

[bimble]

It does seem a lot better I agree (traffic on CHL just lately).
The official traffic count I have doubts about the value of because methodology but if it turns out that this really has made there be less traffic on CHL and not more, hat eating remains a possibility for me.

Even if the numbers can be proved conclusively though, I'd be curious to know how much of any reduction in traffic is due to people deciding to let their children use the bus, or taking the train to the south bank etc, and how much is due to people just driving a long way round or deciding that it's no longer worth their while to come use the businesses here in LJ

 

[critical1]

The smiley face was in acknowledgement that I was doing what I'd been exhorting others not to do - ie making an 'us-and-them' argument, albeit tongue in cheek.....

Obviously the official traffic counts will give us the actual answer when released.....

If that is in fact the case we should keep it shut to mitigate the disruption from the construction work....

but at least it's logically consistent, and testable. So let's wait and find out

But prunus you are also very aware, that the official traffic counts are flawed as they are not to be done whilst the schools are on holiday, and that is in the "official GUIDLINES" for monitoring.

Too much smoke n mirrors here.

 

[CH1]

Someone mentions the "Dutch system" - ie something that's been working fine for several decades in a nation famous for its pragmatism - but you still seem determined to find reasons why it can't work.
Or do you have some solid information showing that such systems create significant problems with delays to ambulances?
But perhaps we should also be thinking about the reasons why ambulances are called out in the first place, and see how the Netherlands compares to the UK.
View attachment 79342

Bang go my plans to retire on the Algarve.

 

[bimble]

Bang go my plans to retire on the Algarve.

Weird how the top spot for dead pedestrian children is switzerland. But then .. they do walk a lot, they walk home for lunch even most of them (the swiss schoolchildren) .

 

[CH1]

Weird how the top spot for dead pedestrian children is switzerland. But then .. they do walk a lot, they walk home for lunch even most of them (the swiss schoolchildren) .

And evidently the Portuguese pensioners can't hop out of the way of the passionate cyclists quick enough. Maybe they need zimmer training - how to discipline cyclists with a wave of your "appliance".

 

[Gramsci]

Really good bit of writing here, about bicycles as almost religious symbols.

"They can be emblems of right-thinking, environmentally friendly city government or the weapons of self-righteous, passive-aggressive machismo. . "

The beauty of bikes – redesigning two wheels

Much the same could be said of the car as a symbol of passive aggressive machismo. Cars are promoted heavily in advertising as more than just a way to get around. Films like Fast and Furious promote cars as symbols as well.

Cars are also linked to the rise Capitalism in the form of "Fordist" mass production. America for example had good public transport systems in cities such as Los Angeles. Which were ripped out at behest of of car business.

The car is symbolic of the best and worst of Capitalism. The ability to mass produce commodities but inability to deal with environmental consequences and waste of resources.

There have been complaints here of the influence of cyclist lobby groups. This book review makes point that the car industry and industries associated with it such as oil companies have vested interest in making sure that no alternatives get anywhere. The book review concentrates on US but is applicable elsewhere as car use is global issue.

Since 1925, the automotive industry has been the leading sector of the US economy, and, of the world’s 10 largest corporations, three are car manufacturers and six are oil companies.

The logic of maximising corporate profit through the car, they write, is compelling to all manner of capitalist industries that sell vastly more glass, rubber, steel, aluminium, plastic, paint and other products for the car than they ever would for the puny bike or efficient train.

Making public transport free is essential, they argue. They cite Belgium’s third biggest city (Hasselt), which enjoyed a 1300% increase in public transport use over 10 years of free mass transit, and Ockelbo in Sweden, which had a 260% rise with half the new public commuters being former drivers.

All that stands in the way of a green transport future is the “concentrated private power of corporations” in the oil and auto industries.

 

[bimble]

Gramsci Of course that's true (I put that bike article there because thought it was interesting, not because I'm an unquestioning fan of the world's motor and oil industries.)
Meanwhile.. this has happened now. It's a mystery apparently.

 

[CH1]

Gramsci Meanwhile.. this has happened now. It's a mystery apparently.
View attachment 79371

That's horrific. I keep wondering if that if going to happen in Brixton with all this pile driving and over development going on.

 

[bimble]

Making public transport free is essential, they argue. They cite Belgium’s third biggest city (Hasselt), which enjoyed a 1300% increase in public transport use over 10 years of free mass transit

Nice idea but sky pie. "the cost of the free bus experiment also almost quadrupled in ten years.." Hasselt cancels free public transport after 16 years

 

[CH1]

Nice idea but sky pie. "the cost of the free bus experiment also almost quadrupled in ten years.." Hasselt cancels free public transport after 16 years

This was always Young Liberal policy in the 70s.

There is of course free transport in London for selected groups: 60+, disabled, pensioners. I can tell you its bad enough having to pay these prices when working. Try doing so on benefits.

Getting my 60+ card was a liberation for me - although it is at the expense of the fare paying customer I do realise.

 

[CH1]

Back on topic: I went to survey the Loughborough Parkway traffic flows this morning about 8 am. Some motorists and motorbikes are still chancing it and ignoring the restrictions, but the conclusion - from what I saw this morning is this:

Nearly 100% of northbound traffic down Hinton Road turns left now - heading west-bound down Coldharbour Lane.

This is added to by a significant flow (and queue as the junction in not controlled) from Shakespeare Road - again west-bound onto Coldharbour Lane. God knows where these cars (and lorries/skip lorries/40 ton trucks etc) are coming from up Shakespeare Rd, but they do.

Clearly the traffic congestion in Coldharbour Lane near the barrier block is caused by all this.

There is now a major increase in cars turning off Coldharbour Lane into Barrington Road and Valencia place - rat running to avoid central Brixton and the Loughborough Parkway. Could be fatal for pedestrians like me who are unable to wait the requisite 5 minutes to cross when the little Green Man appears (or not in the case of Valencia Place, where there is no little Green Man).

Career suggestion for George Wright (and Councillor Bathwaite)

 

[teuchter]

There is now a major increase in cars turning off Coldharbour Lane into Barrington Road and Valencia place -

I don't really understand why people would be turning into Valencia Place instead of Gresham Rd - an attempt to bypass the traffic lights?

 

[critical1]

That's horrific. I keep wondering if that if going to happen in Brixton with all this pile driving and over development going on.

The earth will rebel
And swallow
Loughborough Junction
And be washed away by the river...

 

[CH1]

The earth will rebel
And swallow
Loughborough Junction
And be washed away by the river...

That's what Deeper Life Bible Church said on Saturday morning as they were giving me something for Anthea

 

[bimble]

So anyway, the deadline for responses to the monkey survey seems to have been extended until Friday 13th now. Not sure when this happened, or if its a decision or a misunderstanding..

It was indeed yet another 'misunderstanding' !

The link saying that the monkey survey ends on 13th is now apparently being removed from the council's website.

Because someone contacted George Wright today asking about the extension, and he replied "The on-line survey has indeed closed. Where is the information that it continues till 13th November?"

 

[bimble]

This was always Young Liberal policy in the 70s.

There is of course free transport in London for selected groups: 60+, disabled, pensioners. I can tell you its bad enough having to pay these prices when working. Try doing so on benefits.

Getting my 60+ card was a liberation for me - although it is at the expense of the fare paying customer I do realise.

If I could choose to live in a world made according to Young Liberal Policy in the 70s I'd be there now, not here.
You're welcome to your 60+ card by the way,
a fare paying customer of the many competing private companies who run London's bus network.

 

[concerned1]

Lambeth Official Consultation Survey dated 13th November has now been CLOSED

 

[bimble]

This is the new paragraph someone at Lambeth made today



"citizens"

Loughborough junction - what you need to know | Lambeth Council

 

[Angellic]

This is the new paragraph someone at Lambeth made today

View attachment 79394

"citizens"

Loughborough junction - what you need to know | Lambeth Council

Thank you, Citizen Bimble.

 

[Gramsci]

Nice idea but sky pie. "the cost of the free bus experiment also almost quadrupled in ten years.." Hasselt cancels free public transport after 16 years

Is it pie in the sky? I disagree. If its pie in the sky then there is something wrong with the society as it works now.

There has been much mudslinging on this thread about class. But when I make practical suggestion to actually make a difference to inequality/ class Im told its pie in the sky.

I would suggest that the well meaning but now failing road closures and also the attempt to use the Dutch road system in other parts of London like Walthamstow could be failing as it does not go far enough.

As someone pointed out to me the Congestion charge when brought in is a kind of regressive tax to pay to go through London.

Its the less well off that will be deterred from going through central London.

Under the present way society is run , as my more hard left acquaintances tell me, reforms don’t work in the end.

Moves away from an urban space dominated by the car will not work unless more radical reforms go on alongside it. ie cheap/ free public transport.

Unless this is done its not unreasonable for the less well off- ie on Loughborough estate - to feel that this is about catering for needs of middle classes.

Im all for having a go at the middle classes, and have been called on other thread "ignorant" for doing it. But what is annoying me is superficial attacks on middle class. ie cyclists are selfish middle class people.

In a wealthy country like this a redistribution of wealth would mean that cheap/ free public transport is feasible.