Lonely Planet forums: you provide content for free, they sell it for profit

[editor]

The terms of the Lonely Planet (Thorn Tree) forums really are disgraceful.

Basically, you consent to them selling off your content, uncredited, if they see fit, and you won't get a penny!

The copyright in your postings is yours (generally speaking). We sometimes use postings in our publications (books, newsletters, websites, television programs and other products in any media). You give us a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, worldwide licence to reproduce, communicate, re-publish, edit, adapt or otherwise use your postings as we see fit, including the right to sublicense to others at our discretion. You also give us a licence to deal with the postings as necessary to perform technical and administrative functions in running the forums.

You may also have moral rights, so you consent to your postings being altered, edited or adapted to use them under our licence in any way we see fit. You consent to us not attributing authorship to you at all, or only attributing it to your registered 'handle'. We generally attribute authorship, but that's not always possible and we decide this on a case by case basis. If we do use your material we may attribute it to your registered 'handle', or contact you to request that your real name be used. Don't worry, we will never publish your real name without permission.
http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/terms.cfm

Is this really legally enforceable?

 

[Belushi]

I bet you've been selling off my posts for years

 

[editor]

I bet you've been selling off my posts for years

You'd have to come up with something worth flogging first.

 

[Brainaddict]

Didn't we have this thread a couple of years back? Or perhaps I read the argument on the Thorn Tree forums. It has caused some real controversy on there.

I suppose their argument is, if you don't like it, you don't have to use the forums.

ETA: I'm not defending it btw. It's really obnoxious - but it is legally enforceable I think

 

[Belushi]

You'd have to come up with something worth flogging first.

There's plenty of people out there who'd give good money for my often irrelevant, badly thought out and usually mis-spelled witterings

 

[Belushi]

Doesn't Lonely Planet know belong to the Beeb?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

In fact the books (and Rough Guide, for that matter) also have a bad reputation regarding payment for contributions. The idea seems to be that you send them something because it'd be really cool to help them out.

 

[editor]

Didn't we have this thread a couple of years back? Or perhaps I read the argument on the Thorn Tree forums. It has caused some real controversy on there.

I suppose their argument is, if you don't like it, you don't have to use the forums.

Judging by the posting behaviour here, it's fair to say most people don't read the terms before posting.

It was discussed before but I'm surprised they're still getting away with it. I've rarely seen such a transparent exploitation of users' content under the aegis of being a friendly 'share your experiences' forum.

It's just free commercial content generation and it stinks.

 

[editor]

Doesn't Lonely Planet know belong to the Beeb?

Yes -that's why I checked to see if their terms had changed.

 

[Brainaddict]

Judging by the posting behaviour here, it's fair to say most people don't read the terms before posting.

It was discussed before but I'm surprised they're still getting away with it. I've rarely seen such a transparent exploitation of users' content under the aegis of being a friendly 'share your experiences' forum.

It's just free content generation and it stinks.

myspace?

essentially you are providing content as a vehicle for Rupert Murdoch's advertising space.

 

[rutabowa]

(and Rough Guide, for that matter) also have a bad reputation regarding payment for contributions. The idea seems to be that you send them something because it'd be really cool to help them out.

where did you get this information from? as far as i know it is total rubbish.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

where did you get this information from?

A freelance who had aforementioned problem.

 

[Brainaddict]

They also have an aggressive moderation policy - I've heard that the Thorn Tree moderators delete posts that are too critical of LP books. So the whole thing is a big exercise in marketing as well as content generation.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Didn't the BBC buy them out recently?

 

[rutabowa]

A freelance who had aforementioned problem.

so you are saying a commissioned freelancer wasn't paid for writing they did that was published?

 

[editor]

myspace?

essentially you are providing content as a vehicle for Rupert Murdoch's advertising space.

World of difference. You make a conscious decision to post up your stuff on MySpace, it remains credited to you and you get something out of it (i.e promotion for your band, the chance to reach out to new fans, server space for your songs, access to other bands, producers etc).

Lonely Planet poses as a friendly bulletin board while it is free to skim off good content for free, without credit or payment. Not much in it for the author, then.

See also:
Billy Bragg’s MySpace Protest Movement
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/31/business/media/31bragg.html

*that's not to say I fucking hate the fact that Murdoch owns MySpace

 

[trashpony]

Another site I post on has this on its copyright page:

We have the right to publish, edit or reject anything that you send us either via email, via the site or in writing via post for any purpose whatsoever, commercial or otherwise, without payment to you - unless we have specifically agreed otherwise in writing prior to submission.

 

[Rogue]

Send them a letter that says

FUCK YOU

 

[cybertect]

Not that different to the IMDB's terms :-/

http://www.imdb.com/help/show_article?conditions

Your License to IMDb: If you do post content or submit material, and unless we indicate otherwise, you grant IMDb and its affiliates a nonexclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully sublicensable right to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, and display such content throughout the world in any media. You grant IMDb and its affiliates and sublicensees the right to use the name that you submit in connection with such content, if they choose.

[emphasis added]

 

[jonH]

isn't lonely planet a stupid name?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Yeah, but is a bulletin board a good place to complain about stupid names?

 

[jonH]

stupid name for an organisation = stupid organisation = not worth contributing anything to

how dare they suggest that travelling is a lonely occupation, it is the most social thing we can do, go out and meet new people, follow our instincts not act like zombies traipsing around the same old hotels restaurants resorts, museums etc.

The world is a changing place, TLP is a dinosaur organisation

 

[Brainaddict]

I think you're reading a bit much into the name jonH. They're not trying to shape your experience of the world in some sinister way (well they are, but not with the name )

From wikipedia:
"The company name comes from a misheard line in "Space Captain," a song by Joe Cocker and Leon Russell. The actual words are "lovely planet" but Tony Wheeler heard "lonely planet" and liked it."

 

[editor]

From wikipedia:
"The company name comes from a misheard line in "Space Captain," a song by Joe Cocker and Leon Russell. The actual words are "lovely planet" but Tony Wheeler heard "lonely planet" and liked it."

Fucking breadhead hippies, maaan.

 

[bluestreak]

innit.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I used to work for Lonely Planet when I first came to London about 15 years ago. We worked in a very small office (6 of us in total) and still did everything to the original hippy Wheeler LP ethics.

Sounds like that has all gone out the window.

 

[tufty79]

up to a couple of years ago, they weren't bad at paying freelancers (apparently). and had very nice parties (also apparently).

from all accounts it's changed a bit over the last year or two.

i'm fairly sure the 'free content/use for profit' thing's been in their t & c for a while now though.

 

[jonH]

I think you're reading a bit much into the name jonH. They're not trying to shape your experience of the world in some sinister way (well they are, but not with the name )

From wikipedia:
"The company name comes from a misheard line in "Space Captain," a song by Joe Cocker and Leon Russell. The actual words are "lovely planet" but Tony Wheeler heard "lonely planet" and liked it."

Paranoia or what

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

i'm fairly sure the 'free content/use for profit' thing's been in their t & c for a while now though.

I've never noticed it but then I don't pay much attention and I've been posting there for 10 years

 

[jonH]

that virtual tourists looks a better bet, anyone tried it?