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London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

GuerillaPhoto said:
As I have said before, I was there to document, if the protester did not cover his face, that's his fault not mine, the police were filming the whole thing as well, if he is stupid enough to do it in the first place without covering his face, what does he expect?
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Then why do you see that its any different for the Urban Explorers that you have blanked out some of the faces of in your Catacombs Urban Exploration pictures etc , or is that because its you ?
Surely the same applies to you or them or do you make a choice of who you want to black out ?

Surely theres enough corruption going on in these demos without making it easier for those that wish to build up anger and then photograph it for the front pages , the kids new to the demos that dont understand the implications of photos being displayed all over the net deserve better imo



If you can show respect for the Urban Explorers who wish to remain anon then why the difference here , the "explorers" at least know that you are going to put them all over the net and seem to have a choice , the demonstrators you are walking amongst do not
 
dylans said:
Believe me, I have been in the "sharp end of these situations far far more than you. What you are calling for amounts to a demand for censorship nothing less. Fuck you. You don't get to tell me what I can see or photograph or record. If we follow your logic we would have no footage of the poll tax riots, miners strike, greece, italy, the list goes on. We would have only heavily edited and heavily censored images of blacked out faces. That's utterly self defeating. Here is an idea. Wear a fucking mask.
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what a load of liberal shit.

if you are supposed to be supporting the protesters and you want to publish photos of people engaging in illegal activity you should blur their faces if they aren't masked and even if they are masked maybe think about blurring other tell tale signs, if you don't do that because of some wanky notion of "THE TRUTH" or some other myth of freedom of speech you are a cunt who puts their shitty little fucking photos above solidarity and support for those taking risks in opposing these cuts.

if people are going to use their apparent support for the protesters to move freely amongst them then they need to show real support by protecting these protesters from the police by not providing usable evidence to the cops. if they don't have the decency or solidarity to do that then they should expect to have their camera's smashed if they try and move freely through such demonstrators taking photos that help the police.
 
Everywhere I've been since the demo, every single person I've spoken to - and that's including people from a fairly wide range of ages and backgrounds - has had nothing but total support and admiration for the students' protest.

*loving it
 
Lambeth UNISON was there with Lambeth SOS and our banners. The protestors, especially as so many were so young, were brave and determined.

The police brutality was there to cow people and turn them off demos, it did nothing of the sort. People defended themselves, and even kettled a section of the police at one time. I'm glad that nearly everyone I have spoken to has supported the students. It should be said again and again the real violence is the government hammering the public sector and welfare benefits, a result that will kill 10,000s and ruin millions of lives. That's violence, real violence.

The police once again show they will do anything they are told, no matter how injust or brutal. They were battering people as young as 14 and 15 and pulled one bloke out of his wheelchair. Well done to those who defended themselves and this is only the beginning.

Also Cameron makes me sick, talking about "ferrel" trouble makers. The public school, fucking toff, his class prejudices couldn't be any more sickening. I can't wait until the smug look is wiped off the face of Cameron and Clegg and they have the look of Charles and Camilla in that car.
 
Citizen66 said:
I seldom see people back down anywhere. I take my hat off to you (if I was wearing one).
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It doesn't happen very often ;)

But perhaps I should explain why I had to reconsider.

I do believe that the truth is our ally and I don't want to see a situation where demonstrators see all journos as the enemy or where people are afraid to take pics etc. I am proud of the images that are being shown around the globe. I am proud that at last people are seen to fight back. I just love the images of people shouting "off with their heads" at Charles. As someone said at last we can hold our heads up in front of the Greeks and Italians. These images are precious and liberating and have made my Christmas. This was the best thing to happen since the Poll Tax riots.

Images and footage are also vital in telling the real truth of what happened.As they were when Ian Tomlinson was murdered. The footage of the police kettle on the Bridge is really chilling. As some may remember I posted about the terrible Bridge crush in Cambodia that killed 500 people. Watching the police continually push people into the centre of the Bridge reminded me of that and people can be heard shouting you are going to kill people." Those images and images like them are coming out and they are a greatest weapons to counter the lies of the mainstream press.

However

We know that those same images are being scanned right now in order to launch a witch hunt (and I fear it is going to be a big one) The cops are going to try and stamp resistance out right now, to break its back. The mugshots of demonstrators are going to be paraded in the newspapers along calls to shop people. Its becoming a predictable post demo ritual.That puts journalists in a difficult situation and NUJ members should be raising this within their unions. Don't act as the eyes of a witch hunt and be surprised when you are not welcome at demos.

Now I don't want a situation where we are attacking journos and breaking cameras. I think the mainstream press is a mixed blessing and there isn't much we can do on the ground except cover up etc. But when demonstrators or people who claim sympathy for the demonstrations publish the images they take on blogs etc the situation is different. You can not be on the side of the demonstrators and then claim to be simply observing and recording. There is no neutrality. not when those images will be used to hunt down those you claim to support. If you take sides (and GP does) then you have a responsibility to those whose lives and liberty may be at risk from your images.


For these reasons I was convinced and said so. So the question is now whether GP is going to blur the faces on his photos?
 
Fair play to you Dylan for seeing the other side and backing down. People should be following the filth around and plastering their mugshots everywhere so even off duty they get the cold shoulder.
 
Good post (# 2084) there from dylans, totally agree with that, and fair play for the change in mind.

past caring said:
Checking back, it's clear you're correct and that I was mistaken in lumping you in with the usual suspects. I apologise. I'm glad that you're supporting the protests.
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Apology accepted and fair play to you too.

I can also echo a couple of other posts above, everyone I've spoken to over the last few days have broadly been in support of the students over the actual demo, even though some actually support the government's policy, and have taken positions between questioning and totally condemning the police operation.

It seems a massive home goal for the met; sadly I am not convinced it will lead to changes in tactics. :(
 
claphamboy said:
I can also echo a couple of other posts above, everyone I've spoken to over the last few days have broadly been in support of the students over the actual demo, even though some actually support the government's policy, and have taken positions between questioning and totally condemning the police operation.
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I'm afraid I have to disagree with this, there's been a mixture, those who are already broadly supportive of demos etc. or have been on ones where they've faced police violence would agree, but I've had just as many people bemoaning the attack on charles and camilla ("no love for the royals but they are just an old couple, if it were my parents/grandparents they would have been terrified, it's not nice" kind of line, not a "but it's the royal family gaw'd bless 'em" kind of thing) or the treasury window smashing.
wrt to the violence on the police side, they think it's not right, but don't want to blame the police solely, see it as a bit on both sides. Plenty of talk of dangerous anarchists causing trouble and out for a fight, not real students.. Agreement that if someone has been seriously hospitalised, then the police have done something wrong, but no recognition of that being an endemic or structural wrongness in the police, more blame on the dangerous anarchists out for a ruck than the dangerous police out for a ruck.

They need to get on a demo and face the riot police, then they will understand.

It is a mix though - just as many saying good on the students and that the policing was wrong, esp. wrt the kettling on westminster bridge and kettling of young teenagers, even the odd who fucking cares about some windows type thing, I'm the only one actively supporting the attacks on charles and camilla though (or openly anyway).

Having said that, I can't think of anyone who actually supports the fees/ema/education funding cuts either.. some who think that it's necessary/unavoidable etc. but none who actually support them.
 
dylans said:
Now I don't want a situation where we are attacking journos and breaking cameras.
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Why not - that sort of unjustifiable random violence/vandalism is less llikely to increase the disgust that is has built up amongst the great British public as opposed to vandalising public property/monuments and attacking pensioners.

If it means that a few photographers get "Newt-walised" (hospitalised with vandalised property), then so be it - they "deserved" it as enemies of the wevolution woop-woop (high fives and a bottle of cheapo cider all round).
 
OK just a quick response to this shitstorm which seems to have occurred because I posted some pics.


OK I am not a grass, what I am is photographing a situation which was photographed by thousands of people (seriously) and also the FIT Police photographer was stood photographing said man throwing the fence at the officers, I even told him he needed to cover up his face as I did to many others, his response was to basically say "I dont fucking care".

Everyone in that square was being photographed by FIT, Journalists, random people with cameras. Maybe he should have covered his face maybe he did not care. This is what journalism is, its documenting a situation in front of you without any censorship, you may notice I dont blur police officers faces either even when they are laughing and hitting protesters etc....

As for the Urban Exploration side of things, there are plenty of images of me online, I dont blur my face anymore. As for the people who are with me, thats their choice, we are in a space which does not have hundreds of photographers, CCTV, FIT etc... and not a public space. Therefore to preserve their jobs etc... they blur faces.

Yes some of you may disagree, but are you contacting newspapers as well?

I support the students but disagree with the violent attacks by both Police and Protesters on each other.

As for attacking my camera, I am sure you are aware the biased that has been put on this story only to be exposed by Independent photographers and videographers, without us the police would have been a LOT worse.
 
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