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Lolicon (Lolita Complex)

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What's the difference between someone who creates a film like Friday the 13th or The Evil Dead and someone who sits in their bedroom drawing 'dodgy' pictures?

The guy who scripts a film and gets it made is acting in order to (hopefully) contribute a cultural artefact that there's a commercial market for. The bedroom drawings you're talking about don't serve that purpose, their purpose is more private and more masturbatory.
 
You think directors like Cronenberg, Raimi and Argento started making their films for the money or because they wanted to engage with dark ideas and imagery?

It's pretty obvious that Cronenberg, Raimi and Argento (as well as Lynch, Carpenter and many others) engaged with such imagery because they were attracted to it, but also saw commercial success as a way to perpetuate that interest.
There is, however, an awful lot of difference between the broad fixations of the likes of the above, and the narrow fixation on production of images that only arouse interest in a tiny minority of people whose predilection happens to be illegal across about two thirds of the world.
 
I'll see what I can dig out. Most of my files are on the old desktop computer, not on this lappy.



I've never come across any research that's credibly shown that persons with a paraphilia are more likely to have or to develop other paraphilias. Paraphilias tend to be very specific to the individual, so surmising that a cross-dresser will be more likely to become a paedophile or a coprophile than a "normal" person would be, is pretty much just crass scaremongering of the same sort that pushed the belief that the majority of homosexuals were also child molesters, given the chance.



In my opinion the TERF thesis isn't sustainable - where's their evidence (beyond a handful of perverts who would manipulate access in any available way) that transgender persons are merely cross-dressers waiting for the opportunity to rape "real women" and/or invade their "safe spaces", rather than people with genuine gender identification issues? - and although paraphilias can be a partial result of social conditioning (enough exposure to solely-female company and clothing may,if you'll pardon the pun, engender a desire to dress in female clothing in a minority of people so exposed), I'm of the opinion that the roots of paraphilias lie earlier in human development in the infant years, if they're a social or developmental issue at all.


When I talk about social conditioning, I tend to be talking about how we're conditioned during the years (4-16 or 18) where we're compelled to come together with others via schooling, and are inculcated with ideas that are consonant with what "the Establishment" requires.

Yeah, I don't think what the terfs say is credible :D, but I was just wondering how you would refute it, or what alternative explanations there could be beyond 'crossdressing bad', even if you accept the results of the studies they are basing this shit on. Like maybe people fitting certain stereotypical categories would be more likely to be convicted for stuff (as these studies only include people who were actually caught)
 
The guy who scripts a film and gets it made is acting in order to (hopefully) contribute a cultural artefact that there's a commercial market for. The bedroom drawings you're talking about don't serve that purpose, their purpose is more private and more masturbatory.

Disagree. :D There are many people who practice an art (writing, drawing, music-making, whatever) at home, just for the sake of it and perhaps wishing to hone it to a degree that it might someday be consumed by others. It comes from the same impulse. I used to write (often dodgily themed, it has to be said) short stories. Only two got anywhere near an audience - one in a fanzine and another that won my university's writing competition that year. :p
 
What a strange question. People have not changed over time (or if they have it isn't generally for the better), what has changed is the ability to record and disseminate such material.

I'm trying really hard here-VP said this:

Images and depictions rarely create the sort of psychological pathology that causes someone to commit a crime.

To which you said:

I could not disagree more strongly. Not only is your post simplistic, it is wrong.

I can only assume, because it's what you have written, that you totally disagree and believe that images and depictions like extreme pornography are what creates people with violent or abusive fetishes. Is this what you think?

People do change by the way, especially as their environment changes.
 
Disagree. :D There are many people who practice an art (writing, drawing, music-making, whatever) at home, just for the sake of it and perhaps wishing to hone it to a degree that it might someday be consumed by others. It comes from the same impulse. I used to write (often dodgily themed, it has to be said) short stories. Only two got anywhere near an audience - one in a fanzine and another that won my university's writing competition that year. :p
future Jon Hari
 
johnny vodka writes slashfic and thinks he's fucking david cronenborg.

why doesn't that surprise me in any way at all?
Sorry, coming at this from a position of ignorance :oops: so what's wrong with slashfic or wanting to be like david cronenborg? Just asking to be reassured there's nothing like intellectual snobbery going on here. Of course not.
 
come on then, explain to me about the cultural importance of slashfic. persuade me that it's a people's art form. justify keeping it out of the memory tubes. just in case i've missed the entire point.
 
come on then, explain to me about the cultural importance of slashfic. persuade me that it's a people's art form. justify keeping it out of the memory tubes. just in case i've missed the entire point.
I'm the last person to defend it. But I know plenty of people who indulge in it and I don't see why they shouldn't. At its most achieved level you get things like Wide Sargasso Sea.
 
I'm trying really hard here-VP said this:



To which you said:



I can only assume, because it's what you have written, that you totally disagree and believe that images and depictions like extreme pornography are what creates people with violent or abusive fetishes. Is this what you think?

People do change by the way, especially as their environment changes.

I think that at heart he's a romantic (in the old-fashioned "perspective on human folly" sense), and that he has a hard time getting to grips with the idea that "evil" isn't an external force imposed on weak people through violent pornography/heavy metal music/letting your servant read "erotic literature", it's a combination of internal impulse, *choice and opportunity.

*By "choice", I don't mean the "rational choice" touted by "right realist" criminologists who favour rational choice theory, I mean a choice to act irrationally/against your own well-being, a choice driven by how an individual has developed emotionally and morally, and by the arrival of an opportunity (manufactured or otherwise) to commit a particular crime.
 
Sorry, coming at this from a position of ignorance :oops: so what's wrong with slashfic or wanting to be like david cronenborg? Just asking to be reassured there's nothing like intellectual snobbery going on here. Of course not.

As someone who was reading slashfic pre-internet (thank you, Forbidden Planet of Denmark St for your stock policies!) I don't see anything wrong with it as a genre endeavour (some of it is very imaginative - I still wince at the thought of the Mr. Spock/Papa Smurf slashfic story I read!), but I do believe that in some cases it isn't so much about the author generating new or hidden character traits, as about setting out their personal manifesto of vice.
As for wanting to be like Cronenberg, why would any person making even a pretence to auteurial status want to be like someone else? ;)
 
I
When you say something worthy of engaging with, I'll engage with it "intellectually". As it was,you didn't, and your comment was engaged with on the level it deserved.


I can see why you're proud to be Untermensch: hence the response.
 
Very interesting documentary here on Japanese Manga/Anime (Comic) Child Porn. Legal in Japan; but banned in Europe and the US. Child porn involving real children was only banned last year in Japan. They considered banning drawings of child porn; but decided against it.
It seems Japan got the balance right.

BBC Radio 4 - Crossing Continents, Should Comics Be Crimes?
Take double warning points for this one as a cumulative tally for all the other dodgy posts you've made in the past. I suggest you think very carefully about any future posts.
 
I'm not entirely convinced that bumping a thread that hasnt been touched for nearly 4 years to give a warning is strong and stable moderation.
 
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