Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Still no answer though - I really think that says it all
Living Bar: Racist
- Thread starter bang
- Start date
Agree with Jezza ...
Indeed!
Indeed!
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Good lord - you're back! Welcome back, and ta for kind words
For some reason Living/Redstar/Play/Merrittprofitville keep on emailing me with their latest events. Straight into the junk mail filter with them, but annoying that their unsubscribe function doesn't appear to have worked eh...
Anyway, seems our pal Ben may have an email for correspondence. If anyone feels free to jolt his memory about our concerns, he seems all too willing to quote ben@redstar.co.uk as his contact point...
Anyway, seems our pal Ben may have an email for correspondence. If anyone feels free to jolt his memory about our concerns, he seems all too willing to quote ben@redstar.co.uk as his contact point...
Can anyone help out with some photographs of central Brixton?
I’m after photos of the Coach & Horses Pub in Coldharbour Lane before it was “modernised” by Isobar then Living (Room) Bar.
It’s for a planning scuffle that’s going on (see above) and might help preserve the building - a good example of 19th century pub architecture in a Conservation Area and subject to... ahem... enthusiastic building work.
There’s also a bit of social history involved. Pat from the Albert, now sadly deceased, leaned over the bar one afternoon and told me that the Coach & Horses had the first Black landlord in London (or Britain - I can’t remember which she said and can no longer ask her).
Anyone know anything about this? If it’s a fact (and Pat usually got these right) there should be a plaque on the wall, IMO.
If you can help please post here or PM/email me. Thanks!
<Please excuse the double post - this also on a separate thread.>
I’m after photos of the Coach & Horses Pub in Coldharbour Lane before it was “modernised” by Isobar then Living (Room) Bar.
It’s for a planning scuffle that’s going on (see above) and might help preserve the building - a good example of 19th century pub architecture in a Conservation Area and subject to... ahem... enthusiastic building work.
There’s also a bit of social history involved. Pat from the Albert, now sadly deceased, leaned over the bar one afternoon and told me that the Coach & Horses had the first Black landlord in London (or Britain - I can’t remember which she said and can no longer ask her).
Anyone know anything about this? If it’s a fact (and Pat usually got these right) there should be a plaque on the wall, IMO.
If you can help please post here or PM/email me. Thanks!
<Please excuse the double post - this also on a separate thread.>
On 24 May on Page 8 of this very thread Ceridwen said
There used to be a footballer called George Berry (Wolves?), is this the same person?
There used to be a footballer called George Berry (Wolves?), is this the same person?
NON SEQUITUR OF THE WEEK
Apparently not, but Gil Scott Heron's dad played for Celtic.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Intostella, you are a veritable eldorado of utterly useless information.
bumping this thread because it is so fucking important
bumping this thread because it is so fucking important
Just trying to say something more interesting than bump. So where is everybody?
What happened to Waterhouse?
<edited to say: If you just got here, go to the start of the thread. It's extremely important>
What happened to Waterhouse?
<edited to say: If you just got here, go to the start of the thread. It's extremely important>
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
I rekon the bloke who's article appeared in the 1st post (havn't read any others...yet) is just whinging becuase nobody likes R'n'B anymore...
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
hey... i used to live in east dulwich and go to the living room quite often.. I never noticed any descrimination, apart from the usual you get with clubs on the door, like how much money have you got and no sportswear. It seemed quite mixed whenever i was there.
It might not be apparent on one or two visits my friend. But black friends of mine (and others) have been treated discriminatorily there and it's abit rich to accuse Richard Waterhouse's original comments of being simply a moan about whether people still like R&B.
Re-read this thread, R Daley's comments for instance are pretty damning.
More generally (reposted from elsewhere) I'm afraid the long and the short of it is that Dogstar, Living, now Babushka; many of these "style bars" just DO NOT care about allowing people to have fun in any way but the most moderate. They want you to spend your money and shut up. It makes me so angry. I'm not saying you should be able to break things and swing from the light fittings, but a bit of expression of fun, individuality or eccentricity? Why the fuck not!
I'm glad your experience there was OK Harold, but it really isn't like that for everybody. OK
Re-read this thread, R Daley's comments for instance are pretty damning.
More generally (reposted from elsewhere) I'm afraid the long and the short of it is that Dogstar, Living, now Babushka; many of these "style bars" just DO NOT care about allowing people to have fun in any way but the most moderate. They want you to spend your money and shut up. It makes me so angry. I'm not saying you should be able to break things and swing from the light fittings, but a bit of expression of fun, individuality or eccentricity? Why the fuck not!
I'm glad your experience there was OK Harold, but it really isn't like that for everybody. OK
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
OK i will study this thread, but i would like to point out that last time I went to the living room (well over a year ago) it was on thier 80's ironic (fingers in air making comma sign) nights.... I did my morrisey swinging flowers manouver on the dance floor, followed by a request for G'n"R sweet child of mine (which was duely played) later I was to be seen leading the air guitar solo of bon jovis living on a prayer while standing on a chair. May I point out also this behaviour was prompted by a) noticing everyone was too trendy to jump around to house of pains jump around and b) being very, very, very drunk.
Maybe its changed in a year or so.
Maybe its changed in a year or so.
it's not cool
aviatik wrote
When people walk past on the pavement (or when music journalists arrive) the management want the place rammed.
So when a musician (like Lincoln) performs at Living Bar and a supporter (like you) turns up you're key movers in making the bar a success. Living Bar relies on people like you to arrive for the acts, consume their booze, prop an elbow on the bar and say "oh well..."
I don't know you aviatik and mean you no disrespect but do you want the behaviour described in these posts to continue?
Because that's the affect of walking into that bar. I'd also put money on Lincoln not knowing the score. Otherwise, why would he agree to perform?
[See also the posts made by Ben Cockle, a Living Bar employee. He failed to address a single substantive point on this thread. When this was (courteously) pointed out to him he ran off. His posts are here.]
aviatik wrote
By supporting Lincoln you're also supporting this:
and this:
and this:
You know how bars like Living and Dogstar work. They try to get a buzz going, try and build a rep for being 'cool' and 'trendy' and 'happenin.' Just look at the (appalling) Living Bar web site. See the self-congratulatory puff on their own 'innit' cred.
When people walk past on the pavement (or when music journalists arrive) the management want the place rammed.
So when a musician (like Lincoln) performs at Living Bar and a supporter (like you) turns up you're key movers in making the bar a success. Living Bar relies on people like you to arrive for the acts, consume their booze, prop an elbow on the bar and say "oh well..."
I don't know you aviatik and mean you no disrespect but do you want the behaviour described in these posts to continue?
Because that's the affect of walking into that bar. I'd also put money on Lincoln not knowing the score. Otherwise, why would he agree to perform?
[See also the posts made by Ben Cockle, a Living Bar employee. He failed to address a single substantive point on this thread. When this was (courteously) pointed out to him he ran off. His posts are here.]
John Wisehammer
lifestyle trendy vicar
A close friend of mine knows Lincoln (if it's the same geezer from Brixton Cycles) as a very nice guy - it might be worth chatting to him about what's been said here so at least he might know what people are saying.
...so now I don't know what to do...I want to go and hear Lincoln play...but feel that I shouldn't. If Lincoln's night doesn't take off because of the unofficial boycott people like myself would be responsible...it's hard enough getting anyone in any bar on a monday night as it is
John Wisehammer
lifestyle trendy vicar
"If Lincoln's night doesn't take off because of the unofficial boycott people like myself would be responsible"
No, it won't - it'll be the bar management's fault for operation a bar that pisses people off. It's not the consumers' fault if a product does badly.
No, it won't - it'll be the bar management's fault for operation a bar that pisses people off. It's not the consumers' fault if a product does badly.
John Wisehammer
lifestyle trendy vicar
Well, jesus, you can't have it both ways - either this "boycott" (which seems to exist among some U75ers and their viral antimarketing) is effective at emptying the gaff or it isn't! Well, let's find out if this Lincoln punter - who, as I say, has been described to me as a sound person by someone I trust - knows about the type of criticism made on this thread - what would happen if he pulled out or raised the issue with the management?
I don't have a clue how high awareness of Living Bar's shitey behaviour is among the potential market but I'm glad I've seen this thread so I at least won't be funding it.
I don't have a clue how high awareness of Living Bar's shitey behaviour is among the potential market but I'm glad I've seen this thread so I at least won't be funding it.
LOL I've not heard him play but he can't be that bad....
Why not point him towards this thread? He can't have read it. Otherwise he wouldn't be performing at Living Bar.
If he's from Brixton Cycles they've always struck me as nice people running a great company (co-op). Why he'd want his name connected with Living Bar is a mystery, unless he's unaware of this thread. So you'd be doing him a favour by telling him.
OK, the thread's had 10,000 hits but some people won't have read it! Let them educate themselves and make informed choices.
Once he knows the details he may decide to avoid the bar. Entirely up to him. A bit like choosing not to buy South African products during Apartheid.
But more powerful because Brixton's a small community where motivated people can make a difference.
I don't see anything wrong with all performers at the bar (and the sister bars) being asked if they're aware of the background. Let them have the relevant information before agreeing to play. Let them ask the bar management what's going on.
They could also suggest, as has been proposed on this thread, that Lambeth Council investigate the bars' door and other policies before granting or renewing public entertainment licenses. Let the allegations be investigated by some trusted person.
Most musicians I meet in Brixton are fiercely pro-diversity, anti-racist, anti-homophobic, etc and would be well pissed-off at their names being associated with a suspect bar.
I guess the bulk of the musicians on Living Bar flyers are just ignorant, through no fault of their own.
Most of the performers have email addresses. Some have web pages. And some of these web pages carry political statements professing anti-racist and pro-diversity sentiments (a bit like this site).
It's bizarre for any of them to be taking the Merrett shilling. A bit like Yehudi Menuhin agreeing to perform at a Ku Klux Klan convention.
Well the email for Brixton Cycles is sales@brixtoncycles.co.uk - would it be a good idea to email some quotes from here and a link to this thread fo the attention of Lincoln?
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
Steady the buffs Anna, LM is a deeply unpleasant man but as far as I know don't think he's responsible for racist murders.....the most recent act that I have witnessed is him slapping the backside of one of the female staff in the Phoenix...who the fuck does he think he is?Sleazeball is one of his current nicknames.....
Point taken Mrs M.
I'll substitute "A bit like Chumbawumba agreeing to perform at John Prescott's birthday party."
I'd like to be there to witness the fallout should he decide to goose a Magpie.
Big laugh eh? Wealthy and powerful local businessman pinches cafe employee's bottom.
From your description the object of his affections has grounds for complaint to the police (alleged indecent assault) and maybe the Equal Opportunities Commission.
Perhaps she also has some large brothers with views on family honour?
I'll substitute "A bit like Chumbawumba agreeing to perform at John Prescott's birthday party."
I'd like to be there to witness the fallout should he decide to goose a Magpie.
Big laugh eh? Wealthy and powerful local businessman pinches cafe employee's bottom.
From your description the object of his affections has grounds for complaint to the police (alleged indecent assault) and maybe the Equal Opportunities Commission.
Perhaps she also has some large brothers with views on family honour?
...still confused...
...is dogstar now ok (see "dogstar sunday nights" thread) but living rooms not ok?
does going to a bar to hear someone play count as a complete endorsement of the alleged or otherwise proven attitudes of the owners/management/staff/bouncers?
...let me give you an analogy...now, I think Celia Cruz is a great singer: she is, as it happens, anti - Castro...so is it possible at all to enjoy her music or does that make me by association sympathetic with US intervention in Cuba?
...all I said was that I wanted to hear someone play at a bar with which some board users dislike for some (I understand very valid) reasons. He is, in my opinion, a very good DJ who plays some great music...if that is not reason enough to go, what is? Perhaps someone could point out where else I can hear him or, for that matter, Tuggy (thursdays @ living rooms) at a venue which is more ethically sound.
Come to think of it, might not other venues be operating similar door policies but you just don't know about it...
...is dogstar now ok (see "dogstar sunday nights" thread) but living rooms not ok?
does going to a bar to hear someone play count as a complete endorsement of the alleged or otherwise proven attitudes of the owners/management/staff/bouncers?
...let me give you an analogy...now, I think Celia Cruz is a great singer: she is, as it happens, anti - Castro...so is it possible at all to enjoy her music or does that make me by association sympathetic with US intervention in Cuba?
...all I said was that I wanted to hear someone play at a bar with which some board users dislike for some (I understand very valid) reasons. He is, in my opinion, a very good DJ who plays some great music...if that is not reason enough to go, what is? Perhaps someone could point out where else I can hear him or, for that matter, Tuggy (thursdays @ living rooms) at a venue which is more ethically sound.
Come to think of it, might not other venues be operating similar door policies but you just don't know about it...
John Wisehammer
lifestyle trendy vicar
It's not as if there's any sort of U75 monothink! Surely each has to decide for herself? It would seem there are two pretty simple questions: do you believe what people above have said about Living's behaviour? if yes, does it matter if you give money to people who behave like that?
Music / politics - fair enough question: http://urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16023
Music / politics - fair enough question: http://urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16023
editor
hiraethified
aviatik: do whatever you feel like doing and make whatever compromises and sacrifices that you feel comfortable with, not what others try to tell you.
After all, every day we invariably end up consuming/using some product or service created by an exploitative multinational, business or individual and in the grand scheme of of things, whether you have a drink in a dodgy Brixton bar or not isn't going to make a whole lot of difference: it's your call.
If you feel gut-bustingly wired-up and angry about the allegations of racism at the Living bar, don't go there and persuade others to avoid the place like the plague.
If you're aware of the rumours, but heck, it's your mate who's playing there, then go along and support him if you want to. Life's too short to take on every issue under the sun, so sometimes you've got to make compromises to keep things sweet (but while you're there you might want to pass on what you've heard here).
On the other hand, if you don't give a flying fuck about the rumours (it's just a bar after all) and feel you've got far more important things to get bothered about, then go along and enjoy your night. It's your call, and no one else's.
As for me, I go to the Dogstar occasionally in the week and have had some great nights - after all, it's free to get in, the beer's reasonably priced, the DJs can be entertaining and it sure beats sitting in some smoke and phlegm filled old man's boozer (well, sometimes!) and being kicked out at 11.20.
After all, every day we invariably end up consuming/using some product or service created by an exploitative multinational, business or individual and in the grand scheme of of things, whether you have a drink in a dodgy Brixton bar or not isn't going to make a whole lot of difference: it's your call.
If you feel gut-bustingly wired-up and angry about the allegations of racism at the Living bar, don't go there and persuade others to avoid the place like the plague.
If you're aware of the rumours, but heck, it's your mate who's playing there, then go along and support him if you want to. Life's too short to take on every issue under the sun, so sometimes you've got to make compromises to keep things sweet (but while you're there you might want to pass on what you've heard here).
On the other hand, if you don't give a flying fuck about the rumours (it's just a bar after all) and feel you've got far more important things to get bothered about, then go along and enjoy your night. It's your call, and no one else's.
As for me, I go to the Dogstar occasionally in the week and have had some great nights - after all, it's free to get in, the beer's reasonably priced, the DJs can be entertaining and it sure beats sitting in some smoke and phlegm filled old man's boozer (well, sometimes!) and being kicked out at 11.20.
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