Language learning support/community thread

[red rose]

Inspired somewhat by the mental health thread, I thought it might be nice to have a thread for people who are learning a foreign language to get advice and encouragement from each other, possibly find a native speaker of the language that they're learning to help them out and get answers to any desperately needed translations.

If you use the thread for advice or help learning a language then it would be nice if you were also willing to offer help to others who are trying to learn your native language. Quid pro quo as it were

To start: I am a native English speaker, I know a little French (not enough to be of much use I'm afraid) and I am currently learning Nepali.

Who else is currently learning a foreign language?

Those of you that have learned a second or even third language - what techniques did you find helped you the most?

 

[goldenecitrone]

I'm still learning German. Living in the country obviously helped most, but I still try to read stuff in German, nothing too complicated. Just about to order some books by Jakob Arjouni, who has just died at the ridiculously young age of 48.

 

[Belushi]

I've been learning German for the past couple of years at the Goethe Institute but didnt go back in September because I was busy buying a flat; hope to go restart again next September I find it really bloody hard.

 

[Greebo]

Who else is currently learning a foreign language?<snip>

Polish (Michel Thomas method plus a few other bits) aiming to be fluent in it for basic everyday use, by this summer.

Those of you that have learned a second or even third language - what techniques did you find helped you the most?

1) Little and often - relying on one lesson a week leaves far too much time to forget.
2) Repetition, repetition, repetition.
3) Work out what makes things stick in your memory and use it.
4) To get the hang of the pitch, stresses, rhythm, and intonation of the language you're learning, find an audiobook in that language, read by a woman if you're female, or a man if you're male. Never mind if you barely understand a word of it, half the battle is getting the voice right.
5) If you're past the very first steps but find the broadsheets and classics too much like hard work, try the tabloids, glossy magazines, and comics. The sense of achievement of finishing a whole page without breaking into a sweat is worth it.
6) Don't expect it to come overnight; why should it when you spent at least 12 years learning how to use your mother tongue properly?

 

[Greebo]

I've been learning German for the past couple of years at the Goethe Institute but didnt go back in September because I was busy buying a flat; hope to go restart again next September I find it really bloody hard.

Two things floor me even now with German - the strings of consonants and the grammar (which just plain refuses to stick).

Make that three - the voice isn't right yet except on a really good day. OTOH enough of it can be just about remembered and used even when I'm half dead on my feet and distracted, and I usually do better than a machine translation.

 

[Greebo]

I'm still learning German. Living in the country obviously helped most, but I still try to read stuff in German, nothing too complicated. Just about to order some books by Jakob Arjouni, who has just died at the ridiculously young age of 48.

If you enjoy Nick Hornby, try Matthias Sachau or Tommy Jaud.

 

[goldenecitrone]

If you enjoy Nick Hornby, try Matthias Sachau or Tommy Jaud.

Echt? German Nick Hornby's? The mind boggles.

 

[Greebo]

Echt? German Nick Hornby's? The mind boggles.

Seriously, they're two authors (similar in style and genre to him) who got me past the idea that all German fiction and literature was either boring or incredibly hard work.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Seriously, they're two authors (similar in style and genre to him) who got me past the idea that all German fiction and literature was either boring or incredibly hard work.

Fair dos. First book I read in German was this.

This is a good one, too.

 

[Greebo]

<snip>This is a good one, too.

I got the audiobook of that last year, now all I need is to get around to listening to it.

 

[red rose]

4) To get the hang of the pitch, stresses, rhythm, and intonation of the language you're learning, find an audiobook in that language, read by a woman if you're female, or a man if you're male. Never mind if you barely understand a word of it, half the battle is getting the voice right.
5) If you're past the very first steps but find the broadsheets and classics too much like hard work, try the tabloids, glossy magazines, and comics. The sense of achievement of finishing a whole page without breaking into a sweat is worth it.

These are very good points - I've started watching some of the Nepali soap operas that are uploaded to youtube recently for just this reason.

I'm just looking into the Michel Thomas method now, it's really interesting

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I always mean to brush up on my japanese so it becomes something more than a mish mash of words and phrases. buuuut i kinda suck at motivation... and my attempts and french and german at school were abysmal

 

[Greebo]

<snip>I'm just looking into the Michel Thomas method now, it's really interesting

IMHO it's good for building confidence by getting a quick start, but it's less good for reading and writing, because it's all about the spoken word. OTOH it means you don't have to keep decoding the spelling while learning the words.

Also, the sessions are pretty intense because you soon start using adult length sentences ("Is this a bank or a club?") and modal verbs ("You are supposed to do this, not me."). AFAIK this is very unusual. Next to no grammar drills so far, you learn it on a need to know basis.

 

[Greebo]

I always mean to brush up on my japanese so it becomes something more than a mish mash of words and phrases. buuuut i kinda suck at motivation... and my attempts and french and german at school were abysmal

Tbh all your ability 10+ years ago to learn two European languages has bugger all to do with how easy or difficult improving your Japanese will be for you as an adult. It's a tonal language with completely different grammar, notation, and cultural mindset.

Having said which, unless you want a formal qualification in it, you might do better booking a block of lessons with a one to one tutor (or in a small class) instead of starting completely from scratch.

 

[weltweit]

I learnt some German when I lived there for 6 months about 15 years ago. I went to evening classes and immersed myself the whole time (including avoiding other Brits while I was there). When I came back I wanted to keep it up so I got satellite TV installed pointed at Eutelsat which had German channels and I took an evening course leading to an A level.

Now, so many years later I am ashamed to say it has gotten quite rusty, I could still travel around without trouble but for business use it is probably too far gone :-(

eta: while in Germany I used to guage my progress by how much of the Frankfurter Allgemein I could understand. It was quite hard going.

 

[Greebo]

FWIW when I went back to Germany for the first time in 20 years I was ashamed to find that my German had become so "verlernt" (forgotten) that it had gone from consecutive interpreting level to roughly that of a 5 year old. Some of it came back by the end of the stay, but not all. Hence trying to make myself at least watch, hear, and read it when I've got the time and energy.

BTW native English, German and French to degree level, a few words & phrases in umpteen other languages mainly because of having had to sing in them, plus a bit of medical Latin & gardener's Latin (which doesn't really count).

 

[winterinmoscow]

I'm an English native speaker. I have intermediate French and am learning Lao.

I am my own worst enemy because I am a faddist and know a bit of lots of languages, but would like to get at least 1 to a much better level of fluency

 

[ReturnOfElfman]

Learning Mandarin (still pretty basic level after a couple of years here) but can't stick with anything. I keep on having periods of motivation followed by longer periods of barely putting any effort in. My situation just seems too easy not to learn it sometimes, even though I live in China. I wanted to get proper lessons but with a new family, I've been tightening the purse strings. Maybe if I had someone I could study with, who was learning at a similar level would be good but my social life has also been dire since moving to Hubei from Guangdong. I've had a couple of Chinese friends teach me but I've not really enjoyed the lessons too much.

 

[Belushi]

Great idea for a thread red rose.

The biggest thing I regret from not paying any attention at school is not learning a language.

I did actually speak welsh as a child but living in England since I was 11 means I can only remember a few words today.

 

[Sue]

If you're going to do it properly, it's hard work and there aren't any shortcuts. Watching TV/reading magazines etc is helpful but you do just need to sit down and learn the vocab and grammar. It may not be exciting but there's no way round it. I' d also say finding a class is really important to make sure you get the pronunciation right and get used to interacting in the language.

 

[red rose]

That's very true Sue, the structure and grammar are very important. However after I learned the alphabet and basic sentence structure I found that I wasn't making any progress with just theoretical learning (I'm not sure how else to describe it) and the best way I've found to learn new vocab is to keep reading articles or trying to work out how to say every-day phrases.

I haven't found the conversation exercises in my book to be very realistic, whereas if I have to work out for myself how to explain what I've been doing that day, or if a Nepali friend texts me asking where we should meet up and I have to work out how to say it in Nepali then it sticks in my mind a lot more easily. It helps that my Nepali friends sometimes like to play a game where they insist that I respond to them in Nepali and refuse to move the conversation forwards until I've managed it

 

[maomao]

If any females* are seriously learning Mandarin I'd be happy to introduce my wife who could do with a little polishing of her English too.

*her request not mine

 

[Greebo]

<snip>It helps that my Nepali friends sometimes like to play a game where they insist that I respond to them in Nepali and refuse to move the conversation forwards until I've managed it

IME half the battle is being willing to either make mistakes or find another way of saying what you wanted to say but don't know how to.

 

[maya]

Those of you that have learned a second or even third language - what techniques did you find helped you the most?

It's actually not that hard to pick up a language pretty quickly if you live in that country and hear it around you all the time and immerse yourself in it-
so to simulate that effect I'd suggest listening to it a lot, TV and radio broadcasts, what have you- plus audio books or film clips on YouTube and so on-

You'd be surprised how much easier it becomes just after a short time if you keep doing this on a regular basis... You could also try to find some webpages or articles online to read when you've got the time, supplied by Google Translate or a dictionary/phrasebook for when you're stuck... If you also can find some sort of chatroom/bulletin board where people speak in authentic spk for you to learn a bit more about how the language develops organically and how people really talk to each other in the street outside of textbooks, that's also a tremendous help- If that's not your thing, find a native willing to converse with you on Skype or some similar service, and you'll be a pro in no time (and also be flooded w/ marriage offers, so try to pick your partner a bit selectively also if that's not your thing )

(^That's the best method to learn, i think- if you mix it all together, films and sounds and books AND a little bit of the boring course bits just to remind youself of what you've actually learned... But following your interests instead of tolling over a dry textbook works so much better, IMO.)

- Good luck! I'm currently trying to learn French, as i apparently did pretty well in school but now i don't remember a thing (but still find myself able to read books/comics very slowly, and understand a little bit of it spoken in films-but they just talk and talk too bloody fast, the bastards!)
Despite all that, I'm still unable to speak it, not even a little bit... I just stammer and besides I only ever learned to conjugate two verbs, to have and to be. So I'm completely fucked... Still, it's so beautiful I think. Would love to learn spanish or italian aswell, but don't think i really have the brains to manage any non-european language, it'd be too alien for me to grasp I reckon...
My brother suddenly soared and got A++++ in japanese on university level as an adult, we were pretty shocked as he never did that well in school before, but once he got to study what he wanted his motivation returned big time... Motivation is the key.

 

[october_lost]

Great idea for a thread, but a month in no updates?

Just before Xmas, my gf convinced me to stop going to my mandarin class. Been studying on and off for two years. It wasnt cheap by any means. The proviso was she would teach me. Two months+ in, her schedule, the ebb and flow of our relationship means she has only been able to put aside time to speak about three times. I am starting to forget stuff.

I am now looking on to either get back on Skype, get a tutor or see about an evening course. Probably in that order.

Also, wanted to start practising my Spanish again. Anyone got experience learning more than one language at a time?

 

[weltweit]

....
Also, wanted to start practising my Spanish again. Anyone got experience learning more than one language at a time?

I don't think I can do it, I get them muddled together in my mind.
Then if I tried to speak a German sentence, parts of it were in French

 

[red rose]

I found that too actually. When I first started trying to speak nepali I would reach for words and come up with french because it was more familiar.

Now if I try to speak french I end up with nepali words

 

[red rose]

Proper update time:

Starting this thread gave me the motivation to finally try to watch a few nepali films (none of them are subtitled) and I was surprised by how much of the storylines I could follow It might be because most of them are remakes of famous hollywood films but I think it's at least partly due to my studying

I've also been studying on the tube to and from work every day. I'm getting a bit put off by the funny looks I get though, one guy just outright gawked at me for the entire journey when I was writing some vocab I don't understand why it get such weird reactions.

I've got a friend from nepal staying with me for a while from Friday so hopefully it will give me a chance to practise

How is everyone else doing?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I did actually speak welsh as a child but living in England since I was 11 means I can only remember a few words today.

(((cariad)))

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I've been learning German for the past couple of years at the Goethe Institute but didnt go back in September because I was busy buying a flat; hope to go restart again next September I find it really bloody hard.

I may be able to help you there. If you fancy a pint (or a tea) in Brixton with my other half he speaks perfect German and loves a chance to speak it. He's teaching a friend German via Skype. I will PM you his phone number if you like. He used to do a regular meet-up with fluent German speakers but it fell by the wayside after a couple of years for one reason and another.