Gramsci
Well-Known Member
|
Lambeth Council bringing Leisure Service/ Brixton Rec Management In-house
- Thread starter Gramsci
- Start date
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Previous MailChimp
Where? As a regular Rec user I would like to attend but don't have childcare.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
It's in the social room on level five of the Rec.
Thanks. But I meant where can you comment?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
You can comment here and I will pass comments onto BRUG
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Or pm me
Torpid Scorpion
Basket case
Im gutted that I wont be able to go next week. Gramsci its generous of you to offer, would be very grateful if you could pass on some questions? I suspect that some will be asked anyway by others. Am putting them here instead of a DM in case it sparks some interest among other users.
hope those are the kinds of things that can be discussed there. Its really quite astounding how little information exchange there is with the current setup.
- what is projected in terms of costs for montly payers? Can the council commit to keeping it affordable by maintaining the costs for pensioners and for off-peak users at their current levels? Can the council commit to lowering the current usage fees since the for-profit intermediary has been removed?
- the costs and hours for the sauna and steam room put them out of reach for much of the community. Can this please be addressed by including these in the various pay monthly plans. Better required high per-use fees, an extremely expensive plan or a corporate plan, which is biased toward the wealthy and not for the community.
- will rock climbing be available at a reasonable cost and throughout the week? It is currently, if at all available, not being offered at convenient (weekday) times and at reasonable costs for a community service.
- what provisions are being put in place to maintain the capital budget and a contingency fund at a level where the rec will not slide once more into disrepair?
- will the council continue to support (at least) the current availability of fitness classes? Will the coaches currently working for better continue to work in the new system?
- how will the online booking and changes for classes that we currently use the better app for be provided post handover? there needs to be a transition plan with user testing.
- will there be options for frequent/pay monthly rec users to access other facilities around lambeth and beyond though partnerships with other LAs or private operators? There are facilities in vauxhall and camberwell for example.
hope those are the kinds of things that can be discussed there. Its really quite astounding how little information exchange there is with the current setup.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Very good questions. I've passed it into BRUG
On the budget.
Pre pandemic the Rec made a surplus/ profit.
Split three ways between Better , money to Council for upkeep and one third going into the general Council funds
Pre pandemic the Rec was a money earner for the Council.
I think it is part of reason why they are bringing leisure services back in-house.
What I'm not clear about is how Council will apportion money once it is in-house.
At meetings with Council I've asked more than once whether , once it is in-house management, income from leisure services will be ring fenced to be only spent on leisure services.
The answer has always been this is a political decision ( Cllrs decision) and officers can't comment.
So at this time I do not know I'd future income from what users pay will not have some creamed off by Council to spend on other services etc
Certainly with Better Council over years were creaming off some income for general Council pot.
I find it bit concerning that have had no clarity from Council on this.
Rec fees are comparable to mid range private gyms plus some concessions for those on some kind of benefit.
My concern has been that low paid people not on benefits struggle to pay monthly subscriptions. Council don't seem to understand their is whole swathe of people working not on benefits who find Lambeth publicly owned leisure services expensive.
Same with people who have a disability but are not on benefits. They don't get concessions.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Overall bit concerned that a cash strapped Council could use leisure services as an a way to generate income.
They might deny this. But slip into it as unlike say libraries it is not obligated that they provide it free
I think most people are prepared to pay. But imo there is a contradiction between Lambeth policy of getting people more active ( laudable policy as saves money in long term on bad health) and need for Councils to get income.
They might deny this. But slip into it as unlike say libraries it is not obligated that they provide it free
I think most people are prepared to pay. But imo there is a contradiction between Lambeth policy of getting people more active ( laudable policy as saves money in long term on bad health) and need for Councils to get income.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Post in thread 'Lambeth Council Watch - news and updates about the 'co-operative' council' Lambeth Council Watch - news and updates about the 'co-operative' council
Smick
Moved this post here as it is connected to this thread.
As it appears Vauxhall leisure centre is not going to be part of the new in house management of Leisure services started to look up what the planning of the Vauxhall Leisure centre site.
The planning permission granted is for student housing. With a gym/ pool below.
permission granted 16/1/2013
As part of permission a part of the Section 106 agreement is for a "Community Use Agreement" of the pool.
Section 106 agreement - schedule three- 16/1/2013
I could not copy it. It in the pdf
In summary it says,
The agreement should include details of pricing policy, hours of use, access by non school users/ non members and a mechanism for review. The swimming pool shall be managed in accordance with Community Use agreement.
Now it will be run by Better as not part of Lambeth Leisure Im not clear how this Community Use will operate. At the moment pricing and concessions are in line with Council policy.
Why Better still control it after rest of leisure centres go back to Lambeth is also not clear to me.
Smick
Moved this post here as it is connected to this thread.
As it appears Vauxhall leisure centre is not going to be part of the new in house management of Leisure services started to look up what the planning of the Vauxhall Leisure centre site.
The planning permission granted is for student housing. With a gym/ pool below.
permission granted 16/1/2013
As part of permission a part of the Section 106 agreement is for a "Community Use Agreement" of the pool.
Section 106 agreement - schedule three- 16/1/2013
I could not copy it. It in the pdf
In summary it says,
The agreement should include details of pricing policy, hours of use, access by non school users/ non members and a mechanism for review. The swimming pool shall be managed in accordance with Community Use agreement.
Now it will be run by Better as not part of Lambeth Leisure Im not clear how this Community Use will operate. At the moment pricing and concessions are in line with Council policy.
Why Better still control it after rest of leisure centres go back to Lambeth is also not clear to me.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
This GLA report on the planning application for the Vauxhall site says:
Social Infrastructure
76 London Plan policy 3.16 Protection and Enhancement of Social Infrastructure applies to the
proposed leisure/community uses. It states that development proposals which provide high quality
social infrastructure will be supported in light of local and strategic needs assessments. Policy 3.19
Sports Facilities states that development proposals that increase or enhance the provision of sports
and recreation facilities will be supported.
77 The provision of a gym and swimming pool is supported it should be made available to
local residents on a subsidised basis. The applicant should, however, work with the Council to
ensure that the types of facilities provided are tailored to local need and seek to address any
existing deficiencies in provision. Such provision would need to be secured through a section 106
agreement.
Social Infrastructure
76 London Plan policy 3.16 Protection and Enhancement of Social Infrastructure applies to the
proposed leisure/community uses. It states that development proposals which provide high quality
social infrastructure will be supported in light of local and strategic needs assessments. Policy 3.19
Sports Facilities states that development proposals that increase or enhance the provision of sports
and recreation facilities will be supported.
77 The provision of a gym and swimming pool is supported it should be made available to
local residents on a subsidised basis. The applicant should, however, work with the Council to
ensure that the types of facilities provided are tailored to local need and seek to address any
existing deficiencies in provision. Such provision would need to be secured through a section 106
agreement.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
At the Planning committee meeting where it was decided to grant permission for the Vauxhall development my reading is that part reason it was granted was that it would be part of Lambeth Leisure services albeit run by GLL/ Better.
I suppose getting GLL/Better involved at early stage of this application made sense at that time when GLL/ Better managed Lambeth Leisure centres.
What the Council did not plan for is a change in provider of management or taking it back in house. It appears it was not possible for Council to take the centre out of management by GLL/ Better. Which is not to my mind a good outcome.
Exactly how the Council will make sure Community Use Agreement works now I think is question for the Council.
moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk
GLL/ Better said at the meeting,
Developer said this at meeting:
Officers said at meeting:
I suppose getting GLL/Better involved at early stage of this application made sense at that time when GLL/ Better managed Lambeth Leisure centres.
What the Council did not plan for is a change in provider of management or taking it back in house. It appears it was not possible for Council to take the centre out of management by GLL/ Better. Which is not to my mind a good outcome.
Exactly how the Council will make sure Community Use Agreement works now I think is question for the Council.
Agenda item - 30-60 South Lambeth Road, London SW8 (Oval Ward) (11/04181/FUL) | Lambeth Council
moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk
GLL/ Better said at the meeting,
Developer said this at meeting:
Officers said at meeting:
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Information from the Better App on the transition
We would like to extend our gratitude to all our valued members and visitors for being an essential part of our community over the last 16 years. We want to inform you that leisure centres in Lambeth will be transferred to Lambeth Council to operate from Saturday 1st April 2023. Lambeth Council, trading as Active Lambeth, will therefore be responsible for the management and operation of the leisure centres and we want to provide you with all the information you need to navigate this transition.
We understand that this news may raise some questions and concerns and we aim to address these in the following FAQs. We appreciate your loyalty and support and we are committed to making this transition as seamless and positive as possible for our customers and the community.
General:
Brixton Recreation Centre
Clapham Leisure Centre
Ferndale Community Sports Centre
Flaxman Sports Centre
Herne Hill Lifestyle Centre
Streatham Ice & Leisure Centre
West Norwood Health & Leisure Centre
Please note Better will continue to be responsible for the management and operation of Vauxhall Leisure Centre only from 1st April.
Memberships:
As Vauxhall Leisure Centre will continue to be operated by Better, there will be no change for members based at this centre.
Please visit the Active Lambeth website for further information.
Sports clubs, schools and community groups:
From 1st April any booking enquiries will be handled by Active Lambeth.
Activity Bookings:
Lessons and courses (swimming lessons, gymnastics and ice skating etc):
For any other questions or queries regarding services within your leisure centres after 1stApril 2023, please visit the Active Lambeth website.
ACTIVE LAMBETH
We would like to extend our gratitude to all our valued members and visitors for being an essential part of our community over the last 16 years. We want to inform you that leisure centres in Lambeth will be transferred to Lambeth Council to operate from Saturday 1st April 2023. Lambeth Council, trading as Active Lambeth, will therefore be responsible for the management and operation of the leisure centres and we want to provide you with all the information you need to navigate this transition.
We understand that this news may raise some questions and concerns and we aim to address these in the following FAQs. We appreciate your loyalty and support and we are committed to making this transition as seamless and positive as possible for our customers and the community.
General:
- When will the transfer take place and how will customers be notified of any changes?
- Which centres will be affected?
Brixton Recreation Centre
Clapham Leisure Centre
Ferndale Community Sports Centre
Flaxman Sports Centre
Herne Hill Lifestyle Centre
Streatham Ice & Leisure Centre
West Norwood Health & Leisure Centre
Please note Better will continue to be responsible for the management and operation of Vauxhall Leisure Centre only from 1st April.
- Will there be any disruptions or closures during the transfer process?
- Will the transfer affect the overall quality and accessibility of the leisure centre facilities for the community?
- Will the council be investing in any improvements or renovations to the leisure centre facilities following the transfer?
Memberships:
- What will happen to my membership?
- What will happen with my personal data held by Better after the transfer?
As Vauxhall Leisure Centre will continue to be operated by Better, there will be no change for members based at this centre.
- What will happen to my Direct Debit payment?
Please visit the Active Lambeth website for further information.
- Will the transfer affect existing memberships and any pre-paid sessions or classes?
- Can I access other Better leisure centres, outside Lambeth after April 1st?
- Can I keep using Vauxhall Leisure Centre if it’s included in my membership?
- Can I transfer my membership to Vauxhall Leisure Centre?
- Can I cancel my membership?
Sports clubs, schools and community groups:
- Will the transfer affect our existing contracts or agreements?
- Will the transfer affect the fees and charges for using the leisure centre facilities?
- Who do I contact to enquire about a booking / partnership before March 31st 2023 and/or after April 1st 2023?
From 1st April any booking enquiries will be handled by Active Lambeth.
Activity Bookings:
- Will I still be able to use the Better UK app to book classes, swimming and other activities?
- I have a birthday booked after 1st April. Will this be affected? Will I lose my deposit? Will the final balance change?
Lessons and courses (swimming lessons, gymnastics and ice skating etc):
- Will the transfer affect our existing lessons or classes?
- Can I transfer to another Better Swim School?
- Will the cost of lessons and courses change after the transfer?
- Will my / my child’s teacher at the leisure centre change after the transfer?
For any other questions or queries regarding services within your leisure centres after 1stApril 2023, please visit the Active Lambeth website.
ACTIVE LAMBETH
Tricky Skills
Well-Known Member
It's going to be a right bloody mess trying to unravel Vauxhall and any GLL memberships based at the centre. Community access for all remains essential.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Ive been thinking about Vauxhall.
I think that the Council should do a review of pricing etc at the Vauxhall centre.
Reading the minutes of the planning committee and the Section 106 my reading is that the Council regarded this as a community gain through planning. That permission for the tall building was given on basis that the gym/ pool were going to be a Lambeth operated leisure centre.
So the Council should now be lobbied to make this happen now management is being brought back inhouse.
I think that the Council should do a review of pricing etc at the Vauxhall centre.
Reading the minutes of the planning committee and the Section 106 my reading is that the Council regarded this as a community gain through planning. That permission for the tall building was given on basis that the gym/ pool were going to be a Lambeth operated leisure centre.
So the Council should now be lobbied to make this happen now management is being brought back inhouse.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I was giving out leaflets today for the meeting next Thursday.
What was coming up was:
Are prices going to increase under Lambeth management. As for average worker , already hard pressed by cost of living, a hope is that if Lambeth take over prices might not increase.
Well its an interesting question. Some people hope if a Labour Council take over management they will make sure proces do not increase.
Something Ive been banging on about for ages.
Secondly if one does have Better membership one can, on most of these, access other London facilities run by Better. This will now cease. Bit of an issue for some. Particularly if they are paying the same.
Quite a few people were not aware of the changes.
What was coming up was:
Are prices going to increase under Lambeth management. As for average worker , already hard pressed by cost of living, a hope is that if Lambeth take over prices might not increase.
Well its an interesting question. Some people hope if a Labour Council take over management they will make sure proces do not increase.
Something Ive been banging on about for ages.
Secondly if one does have Better membership one can, on most of these, access other London facilities run by Better. This will now cease. Bit of an issue for some. Particularly if they are paying the same.
Quite a few people were not aware of the changes.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
At the meeting on Thursday the Council said that they were working to get access to Vauxhall. If it happens by time of handover they did not say. They also said that Southwark Council are taking leisure services back in house so Lambeth are talking to Southwark about reciprocal arrangements.
The meeting on Thursday was well attended. Used what used to be the conference room which got turned into offices for GLL/ Better. ( Something BRUG complained about at the time). A conference room is needed in Rec for meetings etc. I do not know if Lambeth are going to turn it back into a meeting room after they take over
I did not say anything at meeting. Went around with the Mic. As say a lot at other meetings.
Several issues that came up,( My asides I did not say at meeting in brackets)
Cost. Council said prices will go up by inflation. But no actual figures given for new prices. Concerns that local community were being priced out.
Cleaning. Cleaning was poor. Council in reply said that Rec had four cleaners ( hope I heard this right as someone said is that all.I agree seems low number to me.)
Groups that use Rec. Afewee, basketball group and fencing club were present. BRUG have been supporting Fencing Club as they have been displaced from the space they have been using due to the new Play Zone in basement. They have been pushed around different rooms in the Rec. But as of yet no permanent space. Basketball - guy said that Council should give clubs who provided services for young people help with fundraising. ( I agree. If Council cannot fund activities for young people it could help groups apply and fill in forms). Afewee went on about how Cllrs should talk to them.
The Council say they have new officer to work with groups. He did not speak. So do not know how that will work.
The Cabinet member for Leisure services attended. Cllr Donatus. Along with the new officer who is going to be head of Leisure services- Mo. Who used to work for GLL/ Better.
Seems a lot of the management of GLL are transferring to Lambeth. ( how that will bring a culture change in how Leisure centres are managed I'm at a loss to understand. Looks to me that Active Lambeth is effectually a rebranded version of GLL/ Better)
Council said that under Lambeth things will be run differently. GLL was a company and had to operate as a business. Council run services run in different way. TBF I did not get this. Cllr Donatus said in response to issues brought up at meeting , that the Council had over years ,money cut from central Government so Leisure services had to have an income from charging.
There were complaints about overheating and lack of ventilation in the gym. Making it unpleasant to exercise in. A somewhat complicated answer from Council over this. About new boiler and fact that gym above pool used to be a restaurant.
( From looking at old reports the ventilation system and heating system for Rec has gone past its useful life years ago and needs a total replacement with up to date system)
Complaints that the Rec has no disabled access. Council said they have had feasibility studies done. Will do something in next two years.
( I'm glad people brought this up. As in the written submission to the Scrutiny committee Cllr Donatus got upset with BRUG committee raising this issue. It is not good enough that for years the Council have not addressed this issue. Since the Popes road car park was demolished there has been no disabled access)
I noticed the Council officer said that the lifts inside Rec had passed their useful life span years back but the Council were working to get them going.
All in all the meeting was a success. I also think it is good for senior officers and Cllr to attend public meeting. BRUG committee raise these issues at meetings with Council and at times are not taken seriously. So meeting like this shows it is not just small group who are concerned about these issues.
The meeting on Thursday was well attended. Used what used to be the conference room which got turned into offices for GLL/ Better. ( Something BRUG complained about at the time). A conference room is needed in Rec for meetings etc. I do not know if Lambeth are going to turn it back into a meeting room after they take over
I did not say anything at meeting. Went around with the Mic. As say a lot at other meetings.
Several issues that came up,( My asides I did not say at meeting in brackets)
Cost. Council said prices will go up by inflation. But no actual figures given for new prices. Concerns that local community were being priced out.
Cleaning. Cleaning was poor. Council in reply said that Rec had four cleaners ( hope I heard this right as someone said is that all.I agree seems low number to me.)
Groups that use Rec. Afewee, basketball group and fencing club were present. BRUG have been supporting Fencing Club as they have been displaced from the space they have been using due to the new Play Zone in basement. They have been pushed around different rooms in the Rec. But as of yet no permanent space. Basketball - guy said that Council should give clubs who provided services for young people help with fundraising. ( I agree. If Council cannot fund activities for young people it could help groups apply and fill in forms). Afewee went on about how Cllrs should talk to them.
The Council say they have new officer to work with groups. He did not speak. So do not know how that will work.
The Cabinet member for Leisure services attended. Cllr Donatus. Along with the new officer who is going to be head of Leisure services- Mo. Who used to work for GLL/ Better.
Seems a lot of the management of GLL are transferring to Lambeth. ( how that will bring a culture change in how Leisure centres are managed I'm at a loss to understand. Looks to me that Active Lambeth is effectually a rebranded version of GLL/ Better)
Council said that under Lambeth things will be run differently. GLL was a company and had to operate as a business. Council run services run in different way. TBF I did not get this. Cllr Donatus said in response to issues brought up at meeting , that the Council had over years ,money cut from central Government so Leisure services had to have an income from charging.
There were complaints about overheating and lack of ventilation in the gym. Making it unpleasant to exercise in. A somewhat complicated answer from Council over this. About new boiler and fact that gym above pool used to be a restaurant.
( From looking at old reports the ventilation system and heating system for Rec has gone past its useful life years ago and needs a total replacement with up to date system)
Complaints that the Rec has no disabled access. Council said they have had feasibility studies done. Will do something in next two years.
( I'm glad people brought this up. As in the written submission to the Scrutiny committee Cllr Donatus got upset with BRUG committee raising this issue. It is not good enough that for years the Council have not addressed this issue. Since the Popes road car park was demolished there has been no disabled access)
I noticed the Council officer said that the lifts inside Rec had passed their useful life span years back but the Council were working to get them going.
All in all the meeting was a success. I also think it is good for senior officers and Cllr to attend public meeting. BRUG committee raise these issues at meetings with Council and at times are not taken seriously. So meeting like this shows it is not just small group who are concerned about these issues.
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Tricky Skills
Well-Known Member
As a comparison, I found out today that the Queen Mother pool at the other end of Vauxhall Bridge Road offers a monthly swim pass for use anytime for £23 
As a comparison it will currently cost you £40 for the pleasure of the piss stained Rec.
Vauxhall remains my current choice, but it can get a little tight in the lanes with four swimmers. There's no space to overtake.
As a comparison it will currently cost you £40 for the pleasure of the piss stained Rec.Vauxhall remains my current choice, but it can get a little tight in the lanes with four swimmers. There's no space to overtake.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
At the meeting concessions for disabled came up.
BRUG have previously raised issue that those with long term health conditions/ disability who aren't on any kind of benefits do not qualify for concessions.
Cllr Donatus said at the meeting this will change when Council take over. Concession will be extended to those with long term condition. Letter from hospital will be example of proof that will be accepted.
This is welcome change. And one BRUG has been asking for.
Will have to see how well it works
BRUG have previously raised issue that those with long term health conditions/ disability who aren't on any kind of benefits do not qualify for concessions.
Cllr Donatus said at the meeting this will change when Council take over. Concession will be extended to those with long term condition. Letter from hospital will be example of proof that will be accepted.
This is welcome change. And one BRUG has been asking for.
Will have to see how well it works
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
As a comparison, I found out today that the Queen Mother pool at the other end of Vauxhall Bridge Road offers a monthly swim pass for use anytime for £23
Vauxhall remains my current choice, but it can get a little tight in the lanes with four swimmers. There's no space to overtake.
Just looked at this and yes it's twenty three pounds a month for swimming at Queen mother centre. It' limits one to that centre not the other Westminster centres. But still for me that would be ok
Join - Everyone Active
coldwaterswim
Active Member
just an fyi I was at a class at the rec last night and apparently should have been given a wristband to attend it. Think when they officially become lambeth active you need to go get wristbands from reception to attend classes (not sure about gym or swim). I’ve heard nothing about this, has anyone else had any emails with information or anything from them? I don’t even know how to book sessions/classes for next week 
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Thanks to Streatham Action community forum on Twitter, I discovered today that a new website for Active Lambeth has now replaced the previous placeholder page on Lambeth website.
active.lambeth.gov.uk
THe FAQs have finally been updated.
active.lambeth.gov.uk
THe FAQs have finally been updated.
dogmatique
merde alors
Has anyone tried to book using the new system? Better membership details don't seem to work when attempting to log in, and the promised email to reset the password (if that would help) doesn't arrive. The promised email about membership transfer details hasn't arrived yet either. And all this for the extra special price of a 28% increase in price. Oh, and the promised Active Lambeth App doesn't exist yet.
Tricky Skills
Well-Known Member
I surprised myself by being able to book a swim at Vauxhall for Saturday morning using my card which has Brixton as the base location. I suspect this backs up your point: it's a f-up!
