Labour leadership

[JimW]

Can't beat a good party rectification campaign. Shame they won't go all out and cleanse the class ranks too.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ck-predictable-out-of-touch-election-campaign

Cringingly transparent.

 

[belboid]

Isn't that rigging

No

 

[two sheds]

A lot of people who lost faith in the labour party and for example joined the greens seem to feel that it is something they could support again if Corbyn was the leader. So they join the labour party, I don't see why this becomes anywhere near hypocritical.

I can imagine they feel they share the aims and values of the labour party as it used to be and feel Corbyn will push the party back to that, so feel happy joining. I don't think sneering at them is the best approach.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I'd like to believe that if there was a concerted campaign to recruit new members to vote for Liz Kendall that this would be monitored in the same way.

I've been involved in (non-political) elections at work and I'd want to know what was happening if the electorate suddenly leapt beyond double figures.

 

[killer b]

The idea that someone who, say, worked as a campaign manager for a rival party at the recent general election would be allowed to vote in the Labour party leadership election is laughable. What do you take them for?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I'd like to believe that if there was a concerted campaign to recruit new members to vote for Liz Kendall that this would be monitored in the same way.

I don't think there'd be much need would there? Where would they come from?

I'd suggest pointing and laughing would be the appropriate response there.

 

[butchersapron]

The idea that someone who, say, worked as a campaign manager for a rival party at the recent general election would be allowed to vote in the Labour party leadership election is laughable. What do you take them for?

Esp in that specific seat where the rise in the green vote may have cost the labour party the seat and handed it on a plate to the lib-dems.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I don't think there'd be much need would there? Where would they come from?

I'd suggest pointing and laughing would be the appropriate response there.

Well, yes, exactly.

Although I suppose you could say that there has been a slow infiltration of the LP by careerist right wing types for some time...

 

[belboid]

A lot of people who lost faith in the labour party and for example joined the greens seem to feel that it is something they could support again if Corbyn was the leader. So they join the labour party, I don't see why this becomes anywhere near hypocritical.

I can imagine they feel they share the aims and values of the labour party as it used to be and feel Corbyn will push the party back to that, so feel happy joining. I don't think sneering at them is the best approach.

Because they are member of the Greens - a rival political party. It's pretty basic, and hardly corrupt - you can only be a member of one party. Anything else is hypocritical

 

[YouSir]

Because they are member of the Greens - a rival political party. It's pretty basic, and hardly corrupt - you can only be a member of one party. Anything else is hypocritical

Do you think that's why Labour are running all the checks? Or is it just a way to try and wean out some people who are voting the 'wrong' way? Doubt they'd give a toss if it were returning Greens voting for Burnham or Cooper. Not that it much matters.

 

[frogwoman]

there are a few SP members (not the leaders afaic) ive seen saying they're going to try to join the LP and vote for corbyn while still remaining members of the SP!! It's quite ridiculous, it shows that they don't really believe it's ideas, the whole spiel when Taffe and Co left in the 80s was that Labour had become a totally bourgeois party rather than a bourgeois workers' party as their previous analysis, I remember all the discussions on this when I was a member. Thats why TUSC and the "campaign for a new workers' party" was launched

 

[andysays]

Isn't that rigging

Course it's not.

I'm not seeking to defend the LP, but can you imagine the shit there would be (rightly) if members of the LP starting signing up in a similar way to influence the internal processes of the SNP or the Greens, or any other party you care to name?

I can't decide what I find most amusing about this whole story - the idea that significant numbers of people who are members of rival parties or groups would think it's actually worthwhile doing this, or the apparent panic among various LP bods that their party processes will really be subverted by "outsiders"

 

[andysays]

Do you think that's why Labour are running all the checks? Or is it just a way to try and wean out some people who are voting the 'wrong' way? Doubt they'd give a toss if it were returning Greens voting for Burnham or Cooper. Not that it much matters.

I'd like to think this is true, if only because we could call it the "Blairite Witch-hunt Project"

(apologies if anyone had made that joke already)

 

[butchersapron]

Do you think that's why Labour are running all the checks? Or is it just a way to try and wean out some people who are voting the 'wrong' way? Doubt they'd give a toss if it were returning Greens voting for Burnham or Cooper. Not that it much matters.

The case being used here isn't of people returning though - it's of people who are actual active current members of rival parties.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

It would be interesting to get a breakdown of people who've signed up. My guess is that most of them are returners or people who've not been members of any party before?

 

[YouSir]

The case being used here isn't of people returning though - it's of people who are actual active current members of rival parties.

Which is fair enough, I just don't trust the LP not to be using it to try and stem the Corbyn flow rather than just as a matter of procedure. Depends how far they take it really and where their focus ends up being. Again, don't think it much matters though.

 

[belboid]

Do you think that's why Labour are running all the checks? Or is it just a way to try and wean out some people who are voting the 'wrong' way? Doubt they'd give a toss if it were returning Greens voting for Burnham or Cooper. Not that it much matters.

Yes. It's basic democratic principles. And, yes, they did run basic checks on people in previous elections.

Anyone who joins whilst being a member of another party is a dishonest turd, and should be removed from membership by both.

 

[Wilf]

Isn't that rigging

You'd almost think they hadn't thought this new system through.

Anyway, they're on it now:

'Harriet, this checking the registered voters, shall we do it alphabetically, shall we start with Andy Burnham's pile?'

'No, tell you what let's be a bit more random, let's start with Jeremy's'

 

[two sheds]

Because they are member of the Greens - a rival political party. It's pretty basic, and hardly corrupt - you can only be a member of one party. Anything else is hypocritical

Unless something dramatic changes, and Corbyn standing is something fairly dramatic. A couple of friends (probably several more, I've only really spoken to two) are getting interested in politics again because of the possibility of him leading the party.

I'm a member of NHS Action party and if I felt that Corbyn would reverse the NHS privatization I'd be tempted to vote for him, even join the party too. They're rival parties because of the UK's voting system but they can have overlapping aims. I think whether they join a second party is down to the individual. As long as it's not a party with conflicting aims and values then fair enough.

The people who are tempted to join are on the left wing of the party and I think that sneering at them (not that you personally are) is only going to alienate a further set of people who are left leaning and is counterproductive.

 

[killer b]

I don't think the labour tops care much about alienating left-leaning people tbf.

 

[butchersapron]

Anyone who ran/joined/supported the greens on the basis of them being 'the real alternative to labour' and who now is doing this is basically saying you didn't really think i was serious did you? Well, i wasn't - more fool you for believing me. lib-dem levels of rotten behavior there.

Also, i think, demonstrates the limit's to greens potential growth in this country - labour have them hemmed in, huge chunks of their membership (never mind their voters) will desert them for labour as soon as possible, esp now.

 

[frogwoman]

you can't join two parties that are going to be competing with each other at elections ffs. it's not right imo. how can you be in a party and then say do canvassing for the NHA knocking on peoples doors saying why other parties inc Labour don't care as much about health as you do etc and then go canvassing for Labour? do you think anyone considering voting for those groups would take it seriously?

 

[two sheds]

I don't think the labour tops care much about alienating left-leaning people tbf.

True, I meant on urban though.

 

[butchersapron]

So this surge in new green members that we're often told has moved it significantly to the left are all off is Corbyn wins then? (which would, given the lib-dem background of many of them, put the lib-dems to the left of the greens prior to this!) Might be worth the £3 then.

 

[andysays]

You'd almost think they hadn't thought this new system through.

Anyway, they're on it now:

'Harriet, this checking the registered voters, shall we do it alphabetically, shall we start with Andy Burnham's pile?'

'No, tell you what let's be a bit more random, let's start with Jeremy's'

Again, far be it for me to defend the LP, but they will be checking people as they attempt to register, not once they have actually voted (of course, they may calculate that the majority of those attempting to sign up who are disqualified through being members of rival parties will be Corbyn supporters, but that's something else)

 

[JTG]

Anyone who ran/joined/supported the greens on the basis of them being 'the real alternative to labour' and who now is doing this is basically saying you didn't really think i was serious did you? Well, i wasn't - more fool you for believing me. lib-dem levels of rotten behavior there.

Also, i think, demonstrates the limit's to greens potential growth in this country - labour have them hemmed in, huge chunks of their membership (never mind their voters) will desert them for labour as soon as possible, esp now.

I've been thinking exactly that tbh - that there are a lot of newish Green members/supporters who will desert like a shot to Labour at the first sign of anything vaguely left of Miliband

 

[YouSir]

Yes. It's basic democratic principles. And, yes, they did run basic checks on people in previous elections.

Anyone who joins whilst being a member of another party is a dishonest turd, and should be removed from membership by both.

I find it hard to give a fuck about people dicking about with Labour. Dishonest turds vs dishonest turds.

On a side note. How about non-Labour voters? I've only voted Labour once in my life, in a Mayoral election. Wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire tbh. But in theory they should be 'my' party. Certainly always been the family party. So am I hypocritical for signing up as a supporter only as long as the guy I back wins? How about if I'd joined TUSC rather than just donating? Would I be a hypocritical turd for wanting to reclaim a say in the LP? Assuming that I might follow that up with the right result?

 

[treelover]

That still requires people to actually check through facebook posts and match them up to new supporter sign-ups, but according to HH in the article, they're doing rather more than that.

For those who couldn't bring themselves to click on the link, here's some of what it says

Must be costing a fortune that

 

[treelover]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ck-predictable-out-of-touch-election-campaign

Cringingly transparent.

Hard right Blairites, they seem to be getting more coverage than the thirty failed candidates who came out for J/C last week, surprise.