Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
sadly there was no chance of the pig transplanting it to its stomach.
Labour leadership
- Thread starter oryx
- Start date
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
mandleson basically giving it 'keep your powder dry and give him enough rope'. Interesting timing with that red shift paper thats come out
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
:/
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Emphatically the right thing to do - he can now go on and ask why Osborne thinks its fiscally responsible to borrow at a much higher rate of interest via PFI (as opposed to normal borrowing), or why they are signing up to pay at least twice the going rate for electricity in the Hinckley C deal, or why they are paying far more in rents to private landlords to house people than it would cost to build council homes, or any one of a load of other things.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Lol. I am surprised.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Technically he could. He won't though will he? This isn't a cunning trick.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Why wouldn't he? It is Osborne's weakest point, it makes a mug of "the resistance" - who would (and did) sign up to exactly the same things, and he would be correct to highlight all of it.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Unless I'm missing something pretty fundamental...they're signing up to something that is utterly meaningless, yeah?
If you can determine the means within which "we have to live', what is the point? Or maybe that is the point?
I presume this is just about (future) damage limitation?
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
For goodness' sake! THERE IS NOTHING INHERENTLY WRONG WITH RUNNING A DEFICIT! 
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Yes, no one would be able or want to actually implement the 'If I go out in Leeds with a tenner and have four pints I can't have a fifth' economics once in power. I think that they have just decided that this idea of economics has become so commonsensical it is impossible to get power without appropriating the rhetoric surrounding it, whether this will be enough to get them into power or give them a chance of getting into power is another question as is whether it is ethical.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Osborne's fiscal charter wants a surplus in 2020 and a general overall budget surplus.
By the rules of Labourist socialism, there should be a deficit - and a hefty one until the year 2400 or so that's the level of social need that's unmet that needs to be processed via Labour's step-by-step reforms.
It's slow-burn (as opposed to Tory big bang) neoliberalism and not reversing the cuts that have happened over the past 10 years.
By the rules of Labourist socialism, there should be a deficit - and a hefty one until the year 2400 or so that's the level of social need that's unmet that needs to be processed via Labour's step-by-step reforms.
It's slow-burn (as opposed to Tory big bang) neoliberalism and not reversing the cuts that have happened over the past 10 years.
youngian
Well-Known Member
No there isn't and Osborne is happy to run one. Unfortunately he's better at convincing a public that thinks running a deficit is economic nonsense that he is Mr balance-the-books. All McDonnell is doing is playing the game and redefining spending as capital investment. The small group of voters who decide elections don't know shit about economics, its all a question of whose gib they most like the cut of.For goodness' sake! THERE IS NOTHING INHERENTLY WRONG WITH RUNNING A DEFICIT!
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
I don't get ethics or rhetoric, to me, Labour's about persuading some sectors of the business class to back you (instead of the Tories) and some C2 voters who normally swing elections in this country, it's about signalling that you're going to defend those interests.
By 'appropriate' do you mean 'use'?
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Syriza, die Linke, the old PCI, the new Rifundazione, the Mongolian People's Party, the CPI - leftism delivering neoliberalism in coalition with others.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Yes, use something that you would expect the Tories to use.
J Ed
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I don't know enough about Die Linke or the Mongolian People's Party to comment on those cases but no argument on the others.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Just what the fuck are you even doing in P&P without such knowledge?
Honestly after doing a bit of googling it seems like an intriguing case, I didn't really know that the really existing socialism > 'social democracy' pathway was a thing anywhere in Asia.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
You know about die Linke if you know about Greece and at the Lander level they always do what the SPD requests, the MPP were Mongolia's Communist Party (pre-1990) after the crisis of 2008 they privatised and imposed short-term contracts on their mines - key industry - before selling them off, just how Syriza in Greece has done the same to its ports - its key industry.
youngian
Well-Known Member
And McDonnell and Livingstone have been appropriating this kind of language successfully since the GLC days. If McDonnell can convince posters on Urban that he is some kind of austere closet monetarist than he's got a good chance of getting the attention of swing voters who think deficit spending is a load of mumbo-jumbo.
But full marks to Yanis Varoufakis here for despatching this pub bore who has no idea what he's talking about but is how most people think about macroeconomics
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
This is in part how it was done:
Battushig Batbold [socialist PM's son], who’s in his early 20s, is a metals-and-mining investment analyst at Morgan Stanley, just right for work in resource-rich Mongolia.
Mr. Batbold, based in London, has been spotted going to meetings in Mongolia, so it seems Morgan Stanley is putting its prestigious hire in front of clients quickly, a rare opportunity for an entry-level banker. Mr. Batbold joined the U.S. firm in November 2009 according to his online LinkedIn profile.
The hurry might have something to do with the sale of half the shares in the state-owned holding company for the world’s second-largest coal deposit, Erdenes-Tavan Tolgoi Co. The Tavan Tolgoi deposit is located in the South Gobi desert, near China’s northern border.
Bankers are pitching for a mandate to carry out the share sale this week and early next week, said one person familiar with the matter.
Mongolian resource companies have already been raising money abroad. Coking-coal producer Mongolia Mining Corp., the first Mongolia-based company to go public in Hong Kong, in October raised HK$5.8 billion (US$745.3 million) in an offering managed by Citigroup Inc. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. SouthGobi Energy Resources Ltd., which mines coal in Mongolia but is headquartered in Canada, raised US$442 million in a Hong Kong IPO in January 2010. Citigroup and Macquarie Securities Ltd. handled that deal.
Mr. Batbold’s dad, the prime minister, is viewed as more business-friendly than his predecessors. He used to run a trading company, Altai Trading Co., which had among its interests a gold-mining joint venture. He has five children with his second wife.
It's on my mind because of the current right-wing government carrying on the previous MPP government policies
Mongolia’s growing budget deficit is forcing the government to consider the sale of state-owned enterprises, tax hikes on petroleum imports and other measures to boost income.
The shortfall in revenue may reach 1 trillion tugrik ($500 million) by the end of the year, up from 600 billion tugrik in the first eight months of 2015, according to comments by Minister of Finance Bolor Bayarbaatar, posted on a government website.
The nation’s economy and the government budget has been hit hard by the end of the commodity boom, a slowdown in China and a drying up of foreign investment. Tax revenue dropped as Mongolia’s growth slowed to 3 percent in the first half of 2015 compared to 8.2 percent in the same period a year ago.
“We need to conserve our spending and tighten our belts during this time of decreasing income,” said Prime Minister Saikhanbileg Chimed, according to comments posted on the same website. Raising duties on petroleum imports and the privatization of state-owned entities are two options for Mongolia to plug its budget deficit, he said, adding that spending cuts could come through decreasing the wages of senior government officials during the final three months of the year.
Whatever John McDonnell says about the deficit the chancellor following him will execute right to the bone - opening up Labour's plans to the Office of Budget Responsibility means the death of any social programme.
So, perhaps we can see the same stance on social security, "this is how it is, you can't go against public opinion", if they did accept the current paradigm, it would be a massive betrayal.
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