Labour leadership

[FridgeMagnet]

Well he is a nut job I don't mind Hitchens, he's wrong about most things but at least he's sincere.

He'd be the old Tory relative you think is generally wrong and you sometimes have a real argument, but they're basically an okay person and you can have a drink with them, as opposed to the nasty racist one that you don't ever want to be in the same room as.

 

[DotCommunist]

Are people seriously arguing that there could be a coup or interference by the US to stop corbyn getting into power? You don't think that they could be pulled to the right before that happens?

I don't think anyone takes it seriously do they? Is the equivalent of some wheezy cunt giving it 'I swear if xxxx happens I'll do time!!!1!' while sloshed.

 

[killer b]

I think Corbyn would have a number of... challenges, were he to get into power. While I wouldn't rule out the army moving against him, I doubt very much it would be one of the immediate challenges. There's a whole load of more likely and more significant things he'd face before that would become an issue.

 

[andysays]

Are people seriously arguing that there could be a coup or interference by the US to stop corbyn getting into power? You don't think that they could be pulled to the right before that happens?

Not sure whether to take this particular story seriously or not, but if there is anything to it, it's more about adding to the general air of hostility against Corbyn and thereby stopping him becoming PM, rather than genuinely letting us all in on what the top brass would do in those circumstances.

It's like the warnings that Corbyn would face a coup of Labour MPs if he became leader - if they were really planning that they would have kept it quiet - it was all about trying to prevent him becoming leader in the first place.

 

[DotCommunist]

I think Corbyn would have a number of... challenges, were he to get into power. While I wouldn't rule out the army moving against him, I doubt very much it would be one of the immediate challenges. There's a whole load of more likely and more significant things he'd face before that would become an issue.

capital strikes perhaps. Similar economic coersions. Not that I think we will see J-Cor in No 10, I still think he'll be ousted as leader sooner or later.

 

[free spirit]

Are people seriously arguing that there could be a coup or interference by the US to stop corbyn getting into power? You don't think that they could be pulled to the right before that happens?

I'm just pointing out that someone who's attempting to paint Corbyn as a threat to national security is in the same statement also basically threatening a coup against him if he did get elected Prime Minister, but presumably doesn't see that it's actually them that is the threat to national security.

I would be very surprised if elements of the secret state didn't organise against him (as they did against Harold Wilson), though I doubt it'd take the form of an actual armed coup. The British establishment tends to be a bit more subtle than that, and they'd probably not be successful, but would help destabilise his government (if he ever get's that chance).

 

[elbows]

Are people seriously arguing that there could be a coup or interference by the US to stop corbyn getting into power? You don't think that they could be pulled to the right before that happens?

There would be interference if it came to it, but there are indeed so many ways it could be derailed before reaching that point. I mentioned the US because I have no doubt they'd take a keen interest, but there wouldn't be any need for them to get involved directly when there are so many forces native to this land who would be up for the task first. It would be a last resort if people across a broader range of society were swinging well to the left in a way that threatened all sorts of US interests.

I don't really think that game has even begun, not when it comes to the likes of Corbyn taking power. Because at this stage the threat is not of him getting into power, its that the 'spectrum of legitimate debate' as tightly defined by the media and political classes might be widened, against the flow of the last 36ish years.

 

[brogdale]

There would be interference if it came to it, but there are indeed so many ways it could be derailed before reaching that point. I mentioned the US because I have no doubt they'd take a keen interest, but there wouldn't be any need for them to get involved directly when there are so many forces native to this land who would be up for the task first. It would be a last resort if people across a broader range of society were swinging well to the left in a way that threatened all sorts of US interests.

I don't really think that game has even begun, not when it comes to the likes of Corbyn taking power. Because at this stage the threat is not of him getting into power, its that the 'spectrum of legitimate debate' as tightly defined by the media and political classes might be widened, against the flow of the last 36ish years.

 

[elbows]

I would be very surprised if elements of the secret state didn't organise against him (as they did against Harold Wilson), though I doubt it'd take the form of an actual armed coup. The British establishment tends to be a bit more subtle than that, and they'd probably not be successful, but would help destabilise his government (if he ever get's that chance).

It would be a last resort because it would damage some of the 'powerful illusions' that keep our form of democracy on the track. As such it is hard to talk about theoreticals of it too much without sounding silly, especially at this very early stage. It could also get messy around those awkward questions of constitution and loyalty when it comes to the royals.

Infinitely more likely to be fought with the idea that the pen is mightier than the sword.

 

[elbows]

Yes Chomskys thoughts on that sort of thing were my inspiration.

 

[J Ed]

The past week really has been an amazing example of the propaganda model in action.

If anyone here hasn't read Manufacturing Consent then now is a great time to start!

 

[J Ed]

Also this interview is amazing, Chomsky gives a bewildered Marr the run around in an interview in which Marr has clearly not grasped the propaganda model at all or his role within it

 

[killer b]

Manufacturing Consent was a set text when I was studying journalism, but it seemed to go over most people's heads...

 

[DotCommunist]

wow does marr come off thick there

 

[elbows]

Also when referring to the coup plotting, dodgy army deployments within the uk and MI5 etc dirty tricks of the 1970's, its important to consider the context. On the one hand it presents us with interesting info that should guard against complacency that 'it can't happen here'. But the fact they didn't pull the trigger on it, even in those extremely lively times where a great deal was at stake, indicates how much of a last resort it is.

Of course the other crucial difference is that they were shitting themselves in the 1970's because the masses were taking matters into their own hands. And the political parties didn't have a handle on it, with games of 'release political pressure valve via the other party getting in' not working very well.

 

[brogdale]

wow does marr come off thick there

Very amusing how Marr's (expressed) appreciation of the linear political spectrum as it applies to the UK press completely makes Chom's point.

 

[rekil]

What....

 

[killer b]

it's a Black Mirror reference.

 

[rekil]

it's a Black Mirror reference.

It's a Mail story...I can't stop laughing.

A distinguished Oxford contemporary claims Cameron once took part in an outrageous initiation ceremony at a Piers Gaveston event, involving a dead pig. His extraordinary suggestion is that the future PM inserted a private part of his anatomy into the animal’s mouth.

The source — himself an MP — first made the allegation out of the blue at a business dinner in June 2014. Lowering his voice, he claimed to have seen photographic evidence of this disgusting ritual.

My co-author Isabel Oakeshott and I initially assumed this was a joke. It was therefore a surprise when, some weeks later, the MP repeated the allegation.

A distinguished Oxford contemporary claims Cameron once took part in an outrageous initiation ceremony involving a dead pig while at university. The PM is pictured holding a pig in recent years

Some months later, he repeated it a third time, providing a little more detail. The pig’s head, he claimed, had been resting on the lap of a Piers Gaveston society member while Cameron performed the act.

 

[Vintage Paw]

it's a Black Mirror reference.

It's real.

Gloriously real.

 

[killer b]

wtf?

 

[JimW]

It'll be Corbyn's fault somehow. The veggie twat.

 

[DotCommunist]

thats one hogroast I'd rather take a pass on as the ameridem say

 

[Vintage Paw]

You twitter prudes are missing some glorious piss-taking on there right now.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

it's a pissed up old gobby fuck shooting his mouth off.

Probably. But people thought Wilson was just being paranoid.

 

[killer b]

You twitter prudes are missing some glorious piss-taking on there right now.

you're not wrong. there's literally nothing there but a stream of pig jokes.

 

[DotCommunist]

you're not wrong. there's literally nothing there but a stream of pig jokes.

would you say there has been a rash(ers) of such porcine based humour?

 

[Belushi]

Whatever the truth of it he will now be remembered as the Prime Minister who had necrophiliac sex with a pig :thumbs :

 

[Orang Utan]

i think i may have been disturbing my housemates with my cackling just now

 

[DotCommunist]

i think i may have been disturbing my housemates with my crackling just now

cfy