Labour leadership

[Supine]

new ‘director of policy and rebuttal’

Corbyn aide Neale Coleman 'paid more than prime minister' | Political Scrapbook

Not sure if they changed the title or you misquoted but the article says 'currently paid more than prime minister'. It's a reference to his work elsewhere and not how much the jez gravy train will earn him. (pedant mode).

Managed to watch PMQ's at last. He came over well with the questions, but he needs to sort out some varifocal lenses. It may sound petty but image is important to win an election. If he wants to lead the country and not just his party he needs to sort that stuff out. Fingers crossed he will.

 

[J Ed]

Bigots will point to this, they probably already are doing so, whenever they want to delegitimise genuine concerns about anti-Semitism. "Oh yeah pull the other one, I'm sure he just wants Israel to obey international law..."

 

[agricola]

If criticising and advocating against Israel's illegal occupation is anti-Semitic shoul we not also consider criticisms of Hezbollah to be Islamophobic.

Pedantically speaking, of course criticism of Hamas or Hezbollah can be seen as anti-semitic as well.

 

[killer b]

Pretty heavy stuff

what is this bullshit?

“Thousands of years of persecution have given Jewish people a sixth sense, and with Corbyn the alarm bells are ringing extremely loudly. There is a way in which he frames his views that makes me feel very uncomfortable. When I listen to Corbyn speak on almost any issue, I get the feeling this is a man who doesn’t like my community.”

 

[treelover]

Lots of requests for clarifications from Corbyn. He should release a FAQ.

posted elsewhere

 

[killer b]

Not sure if they changed the title or you misquoted but the article says 'currently paid more than prime minister'. It's a reference to his work elsewhere and not how much the jez gravy train will earn him. (pedant mode).

Managed to watch PMQ's at last. He came over well with the questions, but he needs to sort out some varifocal lenses. It may sound petty but image is important to win an election. If he wants to lead the country and not just his party he needs to sort that stuff out. Fingers crossed he will.

I didn't misquote it, that's the title of the webpage as truncated by urban - I just posted the link.

 

[J Ed]

How do you even deal with this stuff? Like the accusations of misogyny it's just based on nothing other than the volume and repetition of lies, seriously the media in this country no longer resembles that of a liberal Western democracy, this is the sort of stuff you'd expect from a country fighting a violent insurgency.

 

[laptop]

Not too sure of my own position on this, but is a boycott of Israel intrinsically anti-semitic?

Sigh. The only argument that it is is the Zionist argument that the interests of Jews are identical with the interests of the state of Israel.

Which rapidly becomes a circular argument...

 

[J Ed]

Also when is The Board of Deputies of British Jews going to condemn the British born fighters they claim to represent who fight with an army which engages in war crimes on a daily basis?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

How do you even deal with this stuff? Like the accusations of misogyny it's just based on nothing other than the volume and repetition of lies, seriously the media in this country no longer resembles that of a liberal Western democracy, this is the sort of stuff you'd expect from a country fighting a violent insurgency.

Tricky.

At some point, I would suggest that he will have to stress the place Israelis will have in any future peace solution.

I don't know JC's record on this. Does he advocate a a 2-state solution (which can never work) or 1-state (which would piss off certain people and make them shout 'anti-semite').

 

[andysays]

Where did I say anything about my expectations?..

You did explicitly say anything about your expectations, but I interpret this

Well this is the step-by-step process by which the likes of Corbyn lose the likes of me. Take head-on the idea that we should be in a state of permanent war, with active soldiers killing and dying somewhere in the world every day of every year. It is an extremist position to advocate that idea.

as meaning that until the point at which Corbyn makes it clear that he won't immediately be taking head-on the idea that we should be in a state of permanent war, that he has you in some sense, that you are his to lose over this point or another.

Maybe this is a quibble or something, but I'm trying to argue that it should already be fairly clear that there are many things which you, me and others here would like him and "his" Labour party to do, but which it's perfectly obvious he and they won't do, and it's pointless to blame him when he doesn't do them; it's more sensible to be realistic now about the limits of what he and they might do.

(I hope that makes some sort of sense now)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Maybe this is a quibble or something, but I'm trying to argue that it should already be fairly clear that there are many things which you, me and others here would like him and "his" Labour party to do, but which it's perfectly obvious he and they won't do, and it's pointless to blame him when he doesn't do them; it's more sensible to be realistic now about the limits of what he and they might do.

And clearly we disagree as to what those limits might be. For me, that doesn't mean that I can't expect him to do anything other than plough the money saved from scrapping Trident into other weapons. I expect that money to go into schools, hospitals, homes, etc.

I don't expect him to disband the British army even if I might want that. I do expect him to move Britain away from permanent war.

 

[andysays]

...It isn't. Diamond appears to be labouring under the delusion that Corbyn/his people will only be soliciting questions from party members...

Don't want to quibble, but unless I've misunderstood, so far he has only solicited questions from party members, affiliated members and £3 sign-ups (although clearly that might change in future)

 

[andysays]

And clearly we disagree as to what those limits might be. For me, that doesn't mean that I can't expect him to do anything other than plough the money saved from scrapping Trident into other weapons. I expect that money to go into schools, hospitals, homes, etc.

I don't expect him to disband the British army even if I might want that. I do expect him to move Britain away from permanent war.

Fairy nuff

 

[quimcunx]

Doing the "Jimmy from Norwich wrote in to ask" performance just seems unecessary to me. Ask people to email with their questions, look at them, decide which are the themes you want to concentrate on, formulate your questions and ask them in your own words. That's all that's really happening anyway - attaching the question to a real-but-may-as-well-be-fictional person is just for show. The problem I can see with it is that it gives the impression he's submitting anecdotal evidence - something which the tories are rightly frequently attacked for on here. Pretty sure one of today's was basically that - someone writes in to say they work for an organisation where there are job cuts due to local authority funding cuts. That's anecdotal and weak. The same point could be made much more strongly by saying "nationwide these organisations are cutting X percent of their staff due to funding cuts of Y amount to local authorities". Asking Cameron a question based on one person's particular circumstances just invites him to reply with anecdotes of his own.

I think there is space for that to happen. JC has not committed to following this same format at each PMQ.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Jon Snow and John McDonnell

 

[Pickman's model]

Where did I say anything about my expectations?

What I said is what I want him to demand, and also indicated a way in which to demand it. This is about what I demand and will continue to demand and make the case for.

Corbyn isn't *my* candidate here. He's just a lot better and nearer to me than any other mainstream leader in this country this century.


Is it ok to me if he compromises in a way that will leave people dead? No. And I don't think it should be ok to anyone.

this century sounds good but doesn't cover much ground.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

this century sounds good but doesn't cover much ground.

Quite so. I'm reserving judgement on anything else. The way this thread is turning already is a reminder for me of the limits to this process.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No, wait a second - he is choosing the questions.

There may be a multitude of paths open to him in those 40,000 but he is choosing which one he prefers to take and to pretend otherwise appears to be hypocritical.

And on, your second point, there is no explanation whatsoever about how these questions have been selected.

To be frank, it is not a major criticism but there's something fundamentally wrong when you try and dress up questions that you have chosen from 40,000 as being simply representative of 40,000, rather than the leader's views, when you are the one who has selected 6 of them.

You've so entirely missed my point,that it can only be deliberate.
You contend that Corbyn chooses the questions.
I contend that we don't (and as yet can't) know that, and that you have no basis on which to substantiate your claim/personal opinion.

No-one is dressing anything up, no-one is pretending anything, apart from you.

 

[Wilf]

Liberals try and poach the Blairites:
Lib Dem leader playing 'agony aunt' to distressed Labour MPs
Truly a case of the unspeakable pursuing the uneatable.

Of course some Libdems have a history of eating shit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Pretty heavy stuff

Heavy my arse. This is more arsery by the UK "Jewish establishment", attempting to badger nybroC into taking sides - something he's never done against Jews, only against the state of Israel.
Fuck them, with a shitty stick.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Looks like some 'community leaders' have decided that they are going to join in with the smearing, using spurious accusations of anti-Semitism to do it. Scary, dangerous stuff.

Not so much sneering as attempted manipulation through insinuation. It's cheap, nasty and Livingstone showed how to deal with the petty bastards.

 

[ViolentPanda]

what is this bullshit?

It's bullshit.
The only "sense" around is the poor political sense to try this on.

 

[elbows]

No, wait a second - he is choosing the questions.

There may be a multitude of paths open to him in those 40,000 but he is choosing which one he prefers to take and to pretend otherwise appears to be hypocritical.

And on, your second point, there is no explanation whatsoever about how these questions have been selected.

To be frank, it is not a major criticism but there's something fundamentally wrong when you try and dress up questions that you have chosen from 40,000 as being simply representative of 40,000, rather than the leader's views, when you are the one who has selected 6 of them.

Did you actually watch PMQs? For a number of the questions he gave figures for how many questions were received about the subjects chosen:

Two-and-a-half thousand people emailed me about the housing crisis in this country. I ask one from a woman called Marie

I received more than 1,000 questions about tax credits. Paul, for example, asks this very heartfelt question

I received over 1,000 questions on the situation facing our mental health services and people who suffer from mental health conditions. This is a very serious situation across the whole country and I want to put to the Prime Minister a question that was put to me very simply from Gail

I don't think your point has any traction, not least because those who want to criticise Corbyn at this stage have much bigger fish to fry, and I haven't seen anyone else detect the level of hypocrisy you seem to think you've exposed. I suspect the reason is simple: its all relative. Compared to the previous style of PMQ's, and previous extent to which Labour reached out to canvas opinion, the democratic gimmick will shine, especially on week one. And he said he was going to try this stuff this week, he didn't promise that this format will become the new weekly standard.

I don't know what standard you are trying to hold him to given that people know they are still dealing with representative democracy and not direct democracy. Corbyn is not pretending that something really radical has happened such as replacing the house of lords with a digital chamber of the masses.

 

[Pickman's model]

Diamond perhaps you should steer clear of threads in which thinking is required.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Diamond perhaps you should steer clear of threads

*coughs*

 

[maomao]

Diamond perhaps you should just shut up and fuck off.

 

[J Ed]

Look at this shit

 

[Pickman's model]

Look at this shit

will corbyn throw the money-lenders out of the temple?

 

[J Ed]

will corbyn throw the money-lenders out of the temple?

Worth remembering that those who are throwing their toys out of the pram are doing so because they think that they won't be able to do this shit anymore.