Labour leadership

[ViolentPanda]

Right, I understand this. But Keynesianism/post-war socdem at heart is an economically nationalist ideology.

Given the nature of society and the economy at the time, it couldn't really be anything else, without causing severe social fractures that would have impacted most against the European proleteriat (the UK did, after all, export cheap food into Europe for over a decade after war's end). People had to be convinced that their sacrifices meant something - made them owed something.

Like, I can understand how one could want to employ it for post-war recovery. This has nothing to do with revolutionary purity. even if I was pro-capitalism (which I'm not) Keynesian economics would be the last thing on my mind to resolve the problems we face. Like you speak of realpolitik but to me it's just unspeakably utopian and the backlash isn't going to be pleasant. Politics aren't a reenactment strategy.

I'm not convinced that Corbyn is looking to re-enact anything, merely to try something different. I doubt that he'll be able to achieve social democracy on a national scale, but I do believe he'll reintroduce an element of consideration to party politics that is long-missing - the element that causes policy formulators to ask "what benefits the electorate?".
I agree that some on the left are heralding a new (false, IMO) dawn, and that there will be a backlash. What will govern how severe the backlash is, isn't (in the Blairite sense) "expectations management", so much as how how quickly and clearly Corbyn sets his policy parameters. Blair's people would dissemble until the last moment, hoping to milk the most support. Corbyn hopefully won't do this.

Fuck it, I'll say it, if I was a liberal labour party supporter I would have voted Burnham or Cooper. There we go. Obviously I'm not but you know, I think both of them are far more the realpolitik types than Corbyn.

If you take realpolitik to mean "shaping the words of policy to convince party A that the legislation helps them, while it actually helps party B", I'd say you were right. In terms of "the art of the possible" and pragmatism though, I don't think either of them would know realpolitik if it bit them savagely on the arse.

Anyway enjoy the drinking all.

I've already had my self-imposed limit earlier this week!

 

[ViolentPanda]

I was obviously being sarcastic...

Obviously.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Check out Tristy's gob.

Those Old Etonians really don't like being denied their supposedly-rightful place in the world, do they?
The boy looks like a bulldog who's just sucked piss off of a thistle.

 

[treelover]

Now his leadership must also reach out to middle-income and middle-class people. His campaign has come up with detailed policies on self-employed people, who lack security and rights. This must be front and centre. As well as pledges on council housing and regulating private rents, he must build on his policies to get people on the housing ladder if that’s what they aspire to, particularly young people. Older people turn out more, and backed the Tories decisively in May. Policies on social care and pensioner poverty, for example, must be offered.

If Jeremy Corbyn's victory was an incredible political achievement, it was the easy bit | Owen Jones

Owen Jones setting down some 'right' parameters?

actually, a lot of the new Corbynistas support small business, aspiration, etc.

 

[Casually Red]

That is what Cameron said, surely a Govt Dept/agency can't be that political, this is really dodgy.

Indeed . But to me it means that one plank they are seriously going to peruse in the avalanche of smears heading his way is his past ..and present...stances on the Irish and Palestinian causes etc . Stephen Nolans already had a bash at that a few weeks ago . Jez told him he couldn't hear his question because of a noisy train and a bad line and hung up .

 

[two sheds]

Worth trying to get more people onto the electoral register, too.

 

[treelover]

Just been reading New Statesman, what a rag, it is going to be a key player in trying to undermine JC.

 

[wayward bob]

 

[andysays]

Owen Jones setting down some 'right' parameters?

actually, a lot of the new Corbynistas support small business, aspiration, etc.

Corbyn has won the leadership without the support of the Guardian, so I hope he won't be paying too much attention to what they and their writers tell him he should do.

And where is the source for your claim about what a lot of new "Corbynistas" support? Why should we pay any attention to someone who thinks CCHQ is a government department?

 

[ViolentPanda]

V.v interesting but rather predictable and totally bonkers outcome for Labour.

How does a leader of a parliamentary party hold any authority at all when he has defied the whip roughly 50 or so times?

500 or so times, and how is defying the whip - an act generally of principle - indicative of his authority, except if you choose to believe the ill-supported contentions of the supporters of his opponents?

In simple terms it's like making Saido Berahino captain of WBA.

And then there is the question of policy - there is scant to no evidence of how his package can be remotely electable.

That'd be the policy he's studiously avoided elucidating, would it? Perhaps you should step away from making assumptions based on what the media is touting, and waiting until the man himself offers some policy pronouncements and/or suggestions.

For better or for worse the UK is simply not a left wing country.

The UK isn't a country at all, it's a state entity comprised of four countries.

Now you can approach that two ways if you are any way near left of centre - (i) first, you can try and change the consensus and go on the attack or (ii) you can try and introduce left wing policy on a gradual basis by trying to win elections - doing politics essentially.

Corby will not do the second and will be disastrous on the first - there are rumours that he is going to rotate PMQs amongst his deputies every 5 weeks! That means that he will be questioning the Prime Minister extremely little in the course of any parliament...

And this reflects on how he "does" politics...how, exactly? For my money, rotating PMQs gives his deputies good exposure to the "cut and thrust" element of Parliamentary politics without tying them into particular policy positions. It's a good non-destructive way to test the mettle of possible successors,and for those possible successors to show the Parliamentary and constituency parties what they're made of.

 

[frogwoman]

*bites tongue for next few weeks*

 

[ViolentPanda]

Who cares what he looks like?

My only qualification looks-wise for any male, is that they don't have a pony-tail.

 

[Casually Red]

That's feckin brilliant

 

[ViolentPanda]

*bites tongue for next few weeks*

You won't manage it!

 

[Zabo]

[QUOTE="Casually Red, post: 14106660, member: 49433]Stephen Nolans already had a bash at that a few weeks ago . Jez told him he couldn't hear his question because of a noisy train and a bad line and hung up .[/QUOTE]

Heard that and was tempted to raise a complaint with Ofcom. If you recall, the odious twat followed up his JC interview immediately with a Unionist whose son was 'murdered' by the IRA. Talk about bias!

He's on at the moment. I am waiting for the fucktard to drop a big one and get booted off. As a pretend political hack he hasn't a fucking clue.

 

[DotCommunist]

Those Old Etonians really don't like being denied their supposedly-rightful place in the world, do they?
The boy looks like a bulldog who's just sucked piss off of a thistle.

its quite funny isn't it. Niether you nor I hold any faith in the labour party or parly politics as a whole but it is so funny to see the labour right looking like they've just had to watch their parents have sex

 

[Casually Red]

My only qualification looks-wise for any male, is that they don't have a pony-tail.

the absence of a Hitler tache is also generally welcome . Even though we shouldn't immediately leap to conclusions .

 

[treelover]

Corbyn has won the leadership without the support of the Guardian, so I hope he won't be paying too much attention to what they and their writers tell him he should do.

And where is the source for your claim about what a lot of new "Corbynistas" support? Why should we pay any attention to someone who thinks CCHQ is a government department?

I got the letter G wrong, ok.

 

[DotCommunist]

*bites tongue for next few weeks*

(((your tenner on the car salesman)))

 

[frogwoman]

(((your tenner on the car salesman)))

 

[ViolentPanda]

The whip system needs to go. Maybe Corbyn will abolish it. Would that make his actions retrospectively OK in your eyes?

You forget, comrade, that when the General Secretary abolishes an institution, what replaces it is generally twice as savage.Think Cheka and NKVD. Think NKVD and KGB.

 

[andysays]

I got the letter G wrong, ok.

Fair enough, we all make mistakes, though it's good form to actually hold your hand up to them. With you though, it's a constant stream of ill-thought out bollocks which bears absolutely no examination.

So I'll ask you again - where is the source for your claim about what a lot of new "Corbynistas" support?

 

[Casually Red]

[QUOTE="Casually Red, post: 14106660, member: 49433]Stephen Nolans already had a bash at that a few weeks ago . Jez told him he couldn't hear his question because of a noisy train and a bad line and hung up .

Heard that and was tempted to raise a complaint with Ofcom. If you recall, the odious twat followed up his JC interview immediately with a Unionist whose son was 'murdered' by the IRA. Talk about bias!

He's on at the moment. I am waiting for the fucktard to drop a big one and get booted off. As a political hack he hasn't a fucking clue.[/QUOTE]

For the life of me I cannot understand how this localised , parochial blight got himself onto the big BBC stage . What the fuck were they thinking ? Like we are well used to what passes for media over here to be vehicles for complete non entities , we dont expect any better and we dont bother complaining, but fuck me . There's no excuse for that happening in Britain . There 60 odd million other people to choose from . Just throw a stone over your shoulder and pik whoever it hits . They'll be way better than that cunt .

 

[DotCommunist]

it does crack me up how bad the labour right lost, it really does. It wasn't even close, his nearest rival barely scraped 19% of the vote. Ho ho ho. Sweaty ballsacks to you all, we've got a beard now. As for mint cakes showing LOL

ah its better than football this. The best bit is how mental the press will be going for the next 4 n a bit years. Rivers of ink.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Totally going to be sewing elbow patches on button's jumpers the button

Didn't they teach him how to sew in the seminary?

 

[Casually Red]

They were annihilated after wheeling out every big gun, every party grandee and having every media spin doctor brief against him with every type of scaremongering . Ha fucking ha .
They should really fuck off now and go away .

 

[ViolentPanda]

You're one of those who believed Ed Milliband was too left-wing to be elected, aren't you?

If so, your lot lost today.

TBF, Diamond's various pronouncements do tend to be given the lie by history. As you've probably noticed, the fun is in reminding him of them.

 

[DotCommunist]

I don't want to keep going on about beards all the time (yes I do) but is there any chance Cameron might let his chin go unshorn for a bit? After all, PMQ's is going to be hard work for him when he has a baby's bum of a chin, in the battle of beards he is lagging behind

 

[J Ed]

They were annihilated after wheeling out every big gun, every party grandee and having every media spin doctor brief against him with every type of scaremongering . Ha fucking ha .
They should really fuck off now and go away .

If anything Blair and his ilk and their interventions must have increased Corbyn's vote

 

[JimW]

Didn't they teach him how to sew in the seminary?

Only as he shall reap /Biblically-inspired pedantry!
ETA Arse, you correct typos quicker than I type