Labour leadership

[TheHoodedClaw]

He's only 66 ffs

QFT, he's a year younger than Hilary Clinton, and running for/being President is a hell of a lot more physically demanding than being Leader of the Opposition.

 

[urbanspaceman]

Lack of ambition? He's chair of the STWC - their aims being to stop the mightiest war machine the world has ever seen. And he's pro-nuclear disarmament - another huge aim.

Is someone who gets their modest aims implemented more or less ambitious than someone who aims high and has not yet achieved?

Wasn't the "mightiest war machine the world has ever seen" the Wehrmacht ?

It's an interesting point about ambitions and achievement, and the answer is not obvious. But on balance, surely it's more effective to achieve something, anything, early in the game. Then you build credibility, people take you more seriously, and incrementally you achieve more and more.

Demanding unicorns-for-everybody for your whole adult life, and then inevitably coming up empty is arguably a less effective tactic, although it does facilitate flamboyant virtue signalling.

 

[DotCommunist]

epic beard guy from NI has his say. Out bearding corbyn by 50% (its gerry)

 

[Fez909]

Wasn't the "mightiest war machine the world has ever seen" the Wehrmacht ?

It's an interesting point about ambitions and achievement, and the answer is not obvious. But on balance, surely it's more effective to achieve something, anything, early in the game. Then you build credibility, people take you more seriously, and incrementally you achieve more and more.

Demanding unicorns-for-everybody for your whole adult life, and then inevitably coming up empty is arguably a less effective tactic, although it does facilitate flamboyant virtue signalling.

The Wehrmacht would have no chance against the combined UK/US 21st century military, even discounting the nukes.

And as to your bit about acheivement - he's been a politician for over 30 years, voting on how 60 million people live their lives. If becoming an elected representative isn't an achievement enough, what would you say makes someone 'successful'?!

 

[maomao]

Wasn't the "mightiest war machine the world has ever seen" the Wehrmacht ?

In 1939. Hasn't been true since at latest 1944. War machines just keep getting mightier.

 

[killer b]

'virtue signalling'

 

[SpookyFrank]

Guardian columnists are going into mixed metaphor overdrive.

Blairism is buried beneath the rubble and a different structural and cultural divide has been revealed.

The Tories, this minister said, had to move fast to destroy Corbyn and to colonise the vast centre ground that he would surely vacate. My instinct was that of the Zen master. We’ll see.

Yet Corbyn seemed determined to hurl himself into precisely the bear-trap dug by his enemies.

For experienced old hands, however, uniting behind Corbyn will take the willing suspension of disbelief that he can defy the normal laws of political gravity. The iron fist of our wicked electoral system means he must sway some who voted Tory in the 100 seats he must win.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Of course they won't consider it. They're attempting to practice realpolitik in the world as-it-is (as they see it), not in the world as-they-want-it-to-be.
That requires that they operate on the principle of accommodating capitalism and (as with original post-war social-democratic politics) ameliorating the effects through policy. it doesn't require that they seek and maintain a state of ideological and revolutionary purity.



The above statement depends entirely on how you define "radical". We aren't all keyed into theoretical insight to the degree that you are, so for some mere resistance of any form is indeed "radical".

Right, I understand this. But Keynesianism/post-war socdem at heart is an economically nationalist ideology. Like, I can understand how one could want to employ it for post-war recovery. This has nothing to do with revolutionary purity. even if I was pro-capitalism (which I'm not) Keynesian economics would be the last thing on my mind to resolve the problems we face. Like you speak of realpolitik but to me it's just unspeakably utopian and the backlash isn't going to be pleasant. Politics aren't a reenactment strategy.

Fuck it, I'll say it, if I was a liberal labour party supporter I would have voted Burnham or Cooper. There we go. Obviously I'm not but you know, I think both of them are far more the realpolitik types than Corbyn.

Anyway enjoy the drinking all.

 

[free spirit]

Surely that's something of a negative achievement, as it means that Corbyn has been unable to influence Labour policy in any way at all for the past 32 years.

Surely "selling out" is the more the sort of thing you worry about if you're in a rock band, rather than if you're an elected representative of a major political party that wants to improve the direction and happiness of a country of 65 million people.

That's the sort of logic that resulted in the other 3 candidates failing to vote against the welfare bill.

As an MP ultimately you have one single vote, all you can ultimately do is use that one single vote as best you can to oppose the crap that's being pushed through parliament. If the rest of parliament decided for some odd reason that the best way to oppose that thing is to abstain, there's not a lot you can do about that as a back bencher.

I don't really give too much of a toss about rock bands selling out, left wing politicians though... that's a very rare and very important trait for me.

 

[Zabo]

Leaving aside Urban's occasional squabbles, nuanced and indeed erudite arguments, there is one thing we should all be pleased about. Namely: the main stream media have been turned over good and proper. Be it the vilification from Hodges in the Vermingraph, the personal attacks from the Fail and the relentless belittling by the Guardian, all have been put in their place. Corbyn had no need to go arse licking with Murdoch, no discrete dinners with the London centric journalists. Rather he went and spoke to the people.

The Social Media along with connecting with communities are the ones who have given Corbyn his victory. To think his votes exceeded those of Bliar is not only extraordinary but is a testament to ordinary folks both young and not so young expressing their will against all odds.

Finally, it is good feeling to know that Urban plays a part in the democracy dialogue.

Here's to a brighter future.

 

[rutabowa]

'virtue signalling'

My new least favourite buzz phrase.

 

[J Ed]

My new least favourite buzz phrase.

It just seems to mean 'when people who aren't me say that they like stuff that's different to the stuff I like'

 

[free spirit]

my facebook feed is in corbyn overdrive.

If it's anything to go by, I reckon most of those who left Labour in protest against the Iraq war will be looking to rejoin / join a Corbyn led Labour party.

The Green Party pages are a bit all over the shop right now too, I suspect much of the Green Surge is going to be heading for the red tsumami.

 

[rutabowa]

It just seems to mean 'when people who aren't me say that they like stuff that's different to the stuff I like'

Or "dont say anything about anything important, its not your place"

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Crude identity politics and generalised assumptions.
Not what I expect from you.

I was obviously being sarcastic...

 

[maomao]

My prediction for five years time if Corbyn is still leader is that so many Labour voters come back that Labour get the most votes but lose under the fptp system. That would be fun.

 

[andysays]

BBC news article on the website giving a bio has plagiarised bits from wiki. Whoever did it left references in.

Obviously a rush job after they were taken by surprise - just like the recent GE, absolutely no-one saw this result coming, did they

 

[nino_savatte]

Check out Tristy's gob.

 

[ska invita]

Check out Tristy's gob.

 

[nino_savatte]

Separated at birth?

 

[YouSir]

I've just joined the Labour Party, they're sending me a membership pack in 7-10 days. When can I expect my customary Urban 75 kicking?

 

[ska invita]

Separated at birth?

Supposedly Prince Harry has withdrawn his support from the Labour party too

 

[gosub]

How old is he? He could easily be dead before 2020. Not even joking. (Well, maybe a little.)

Depends if he looks like winning the General Election.

 

[ska invita]

I've just joined the Labour Party, they're sending me a membership pack in 7-10 days. When can I expect my customary Urban 75 kicking?

Next time they vote en masse for "Tory" policies

 

[panpete]

WOOOOHOOOO!!!!!!!
JEREMY CORBYN'S LEADER! JEREMY CORBYN'S LEADER! JEREMY CORBYN'S LEADER! JEREMY CORBYN'S LEADER!
JEREMY CORBYN'S LEADER! JEREMY CORBYN'S LEADER!

 

[red & green]

I'm not optimistic but I will say this JC is a v v good local MP

 

[BandWagon]

Just a question here. Will this new leadership lead to a resurgence for Labour in Scotland? Taking on the SNP who are also leftwards leaning? That would be a big help in a GE.

 

[nino_savatte]

I'm not optimistic but I will say this JC is a v v good local MP

He was my local MP for a few years. I used to see him at Tufnell Park tube station almost every morning. I'd always gave him a nod and a smile.

 

[YouSir]

Next time they vote en masse for "Tory" policies

So 7-10 days then?

 

[maomao]

I'm not optimistic but I will say this JC is a v v good local MP

A nasty horrible cunt of my acquaintance who has little good to say about anyone and certainly doesn't vote labour is a constituent of his and couldn't find a bad word to say about him (this was last year, I'm sure he's got a whole routine about how he's an evil nutter by now).