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Labour leadership

TheHoodedClaw said:
QFT, he's a year younger than Hilary Clinton, and running for/being President is a hell of a lot more physically demanding than being Leader of the Opposition.
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Exactly. And this is nowadays with longer life expectancy. Callaghan became PM at 66/7 and Churchill at 66. Blair appointment resulted in people shifting their expectations to younger but younger doesn't always = better.
 
cesare said:
Exactly. And this is nowadays with longer life expectancy. Callaghan became PM at 66/7 and Churchill at 66. Blair appointment resulted in people shifting their expectations to younger but younger doesn't always = better.
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Well, he would be the oldest ever* PM if he won in 2020.

*Gladstone was older in his final term but he'd been elected three times before.
 
cesare said:
Let's not forget that Blair's only 4 years younger than Corbyn either.
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As littlebabyjesus alluded, I'm not saying this is a problem, but your comparison is off. Firstly, Blair is 4 years younger than Corbyn now and that's 8 years after his Prime Ministership ended, and 21 years after he was made leader of Labour.
 
Errr... I wasn't pointing out his age as a problem, or as a reason not to endorse. More to say that the enthusiasm should be slightly tempered with the reality we don't know how this is going to pan out in the next five years (and more) - and his possible death was a jibe at that.

And if this event (and the last few months) could tell us anything it's that the political future of this country is really quite unpredictable, so all the oh-so-sure assurances that this is simply 'a good thing' might well just be better hanging on and seeing what comes next.
 
LynnDoyleCooper said:
Errr... I wasn't pointing out his age as a problem, or as a reason not to endorse. More to say that the enthusiasm should be slightly tempered with the reality we don't know how this is going to pan out in the next five years (and more) - and his possible death was a jibe at that.

And if this event (and the last few months) could tell us anything it's that the political future of this country is really quite unpredictable, so all the oh-so-sure assurances that this is simply 'a good thing' might well just be better hanging on and seeing what comes next.
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Enthusiasm should be tempered by lack of confidence in parliamentary politics - not age.
 
Remember also that his plan is not necessarily to ape the conventional pattern of leadership; for instance he's already on about delegating or sharing aspects of the job such as PMQ appearances, and has made all kinds of noises about improving internal party democracy. Few are going to vote for a party that seeks to place a part-time PM of course, but such an approach might cast the spotlight more widely on the party than on him all of the time. I don't know if that directly alters the importance of the man's age, either in PR terms or just in terms of personal capability, but it might contribute towards diminishing it a little.
 
V.v interesting but rather predictable and totally bonkers outcome for Labour.

How does a leader of a parliamentary party hold any authority at all when he has defied the whip roughly 50 or so times?

In simple terms it's like making Saido Berahino captain of WBA.

And then there is the question of policy - there is scant to no evidence of how his package can be remotely electable.

For better or for worse the UK is simply not a left wing country.

Now you can approach that two ways if you are any way near left of centre - (i) first, you can try and change the consensus and go on the attack or (ii) you can try and introduce left wing policy on a gradual basis by trying to win elections - doing politics essentially.

Corby will not do the second and will be disastrous on the first - there are rumours that he is going to rotate PMQs amongst his deputies every 5 weeks! That means that he will be questioning the Prime Minister extremely little in the course of any parliament...
 
Diamond said:
V.v interesting but rather predictable and totally bonkers outcome for Labour.

How does a leader of a parliamentary party hold any authority at all when he has defied the whip roughly 50 or so times?

In simple terms it's like making Saido Berahino captain of WBA.

And then there is the question of policy - there is scant to no evidence of how his package can be remotely electable.

For better or for worse the UK is simply not a left wing country.

Now you can approach that two ways if you are any way near left of centre - (i) first, you can try and change the consensus and go on the attack or (ii) you can try and introduce left wing policy on a gradual basis by trying to win elections - doing politics essentially.

Corby will not do the second and will be disastrous on the first - there are rumours that he is going to rotate PMQs amongst his deputies every 5 weeks! That means that he will be questioning the Prime Minister extremely little in the course of any parliament...
Click to expand...


Are you a child of thatcher? Because some of us have longer memories
 
Diamond said:
V.v interesting but rather predictable and totally bonkers outcome for Labour.

How does a leader of a parliamentary party hold any authority at all when he has defied the whip roughly 50 or so times?

In simple terms it's like making Saido Berahino captain of WBA.

And then there is the question of policy - there is scant to no evidence of how his package can be remotely electable.

For better or for worse the UK is simply not a left wing country.

Now you can approach that two ways if you are any way near left of centre - (i) first, you can try and change the consensus and go on the attack or (ii) you can try and introduce left wing policy on a gradual basis by trying to win elections - doing politics essentially.

Corby will not do the second and will be disastrous on the first - there are rumours that he is going to rotate PMQs amongst his deputies every 5 weeks! That means that he will be questioning the Prime Minister extremely little in the course of any parliament...
Click to expand...

1/10 on ratemytroll.com, soz
 
Diamond said:
V.v interesting but rather predictable and totally bonkers outcome for Labour.

How does a leader of a parliamentary party hold any authority at all when he has defied the whip roughly 50 or so times?

In simple terms it's like making Saido Berahino captain of WBA.

And then there is the question of policy - there is scant to no evidence of how his package can be remotely electable.

For better or for worse the UK is simply not a left wing country.

Now you can approach that two ways if you are any way near left of centre - (i) first, you can try and change the consensus and go on the attack or (ii) you can try and introduce left wing policy on a gradual basis by trying to win elections - doing politics essentially.

Corby will not do the second and will be disastrous on the first - there are rumours that he is going to rotate PMQs amongst his deputies every 5 weeks! That means that he will be questioning the Prime Minister extremely little in the course of any parliament...
Click to expand...

Look at me, look at me
 
Last edited:
Diamond said:
V.v interesting but rather predictable and totally bonkers outcome for Labour.

How does a leader of a parliamentary party hold any authority at all when he has defied the whip roughly 50 or so times?

In simple terms it's like making Saido Berahino captain of WBA.

And then there is the question of policy - there is scant to no evidence of how his package can be remotely electable.

For better or for worse the UK is simply not a left wing country.

Now you can approach that two ways if you are any way near left of centre - (i) first, you can try and change the consensus and go on the attack or (ii) you can try and introduce left wing policy on a gradual basis by trying to win elections - doing politics essentially.

Corby will not do the second and will be disastrous on the first - there are rumours that he is going to rotate PMQs amongst his deputies every 5 weeks! That means that he will be questioning the Prime Minister extremely little in the course of any parliament...
Click to expand...
The whip system needs to go. Maybe Corbyn will abolish it. Would that make his actions retrospectively OK in your eyes?
 
mauvais said:
Remember also that his plan is not necessarily to ape the conventional pattern of leadership; for instance he's already on about delegating or sharing aspects of the job such as PMQ appearances, and has made all kinds of noises about improving internal party democracy. Few are going to vote for a party that seeks to place a part-time PM of course, but such an approach might cast the spotlight more widely on the party than on him all of the time. I don't know if that directly alters the importance of the man's age, either in PR terms or just in terms of personal capability, but it might contribute towards diminishing it a little.
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I'm not so sure about that. Again, comparing to José Mujica, Mujica came from a radical left background (armed opposition to a dictatorship, rather different from Corbyn, but then radically different situation, and Corbyn did after all marry a Chilean exile, so there's a link there). Mujica sought from his position on the left to be a unifying president, and to devolve power. Corbyn could also present his programme as a genuine project for devolving power and reaching out to a broad alliance.

Like Mujica, Corbyn can credibly present himself as someone who does not use spin to obfuscate, does not clothe himself either literally or metaphorically only after consultation with aides, and does not seek personal enrichment.

On taking office, Mujica said this:

it is a mistake to think that power comes from above, when it comes from within the hearts of the masses
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I think there is at least a chance that Corbyn believes something similar.
 
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