Kicking Off In Tottenham

[8ball]

That was in response to tom's post about people maybe not being bothered if they thought the dead blokes had nicked it.

Ah - makes sense.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

It's Monday that a lot of the benefit cuts kick in if I'm not mistaken*. The pan would seem to be on the stove and the gas lit.

* - feel free to correct me - I'm often mistaken

yup.. April fools day ironically!

 

[AKA pseudonym]

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[AKA pseudonym]

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[AKA pseudonym]

*multiple posts*

 

[Belushi]

One thing that is happening here starting today is that Haringey is one of the four local authorities piloting the new benefits cap. It's one of the most deprived areas in the country and this is going to hit a lot of people, some of whom might be completely unaware of how much they are going to lose out by.

 

[8den]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/31/bedroom-tax-benefit-cap-tottenham

 

[MillwallShoes]

Millwall lost in the last minute to Birmingham City (who we loathed for good reason) and this caused a very tense atmosphere. When people were leaving the ground and were heading towards The Blue, the police put a line of police in full riot gear across the road causing a big panicky crush to develop. This crowd were still on the whole good natured and had many kids on dads shoulders, blokes with their wives and girlfriends etc. Then the police charged the crowd (who had no where to go) and batoned loads of people including kids on dads shoulders etc causing loads of nasty injuries and creating a palpable sense of rage and fury.

This mindless attack by the police on a largely peaceful crowd was the REASON that many people then took their kids and girlfriends home, came back, looted the adjacent scrap yard and pelted the police with the contents repeatedly.

there was far, far more to it than that. there were mobs forming up outside before the final whistle...

 

[MillwallShoes]

the fact is, theare was a map of the most socially deprived areas in england and where the riots occured, and no guesses for where most of the riot spots were based...

doesn't really excuse some of the scummy behaviour witnessed in some areas that day (mugging, smashing small local shops up), but it'd take a fool to say that social deprivation was not linked into what happened.

 

[8ball]

the fact is, theare was a map of the most socially deprived areas in england and where the riots occured, and no guesses for where most of the riot spots were based...

doesn't really excuse some of the scummy behaviour witnessed in some areas that day (mugging, smashing small local shops up), but it'd take a fool to say that social deprivation was not linked into what happened.

Ah, but those areas are deprived because the people there are so scummy and feckless.
Cutting their benefits will wake them up a bit and make them pull their socks up!

</IDS>

 

[Pickman's model]

Ah, but those areas are deprived because the people there are so scummy and feckless.
Cutting their benefits will wake them up a bit and make them pull their socks up!

</IDS>

and has it?

 

[8ball]

and has it?

Is that addressed to IDS?

 

[Pickman's model]

Is that addressed to IDS?

i want you to channel ids again and let me know

 

[8ball]

<eyes roll back in head>

It's all the fault of the civil service.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

There is an official website for the Mark Duggan inquest now:

http://dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/

The inquest proper begins tomorrow.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Well, not so much 'Like', but thanks for the heads-up.

 

[TopCat]

This inquest (long overdue) should be interesting.

 

[DotCommunist]

it'll be a total whitewash

 

[TopCat]

How will they proceed given the police concerned in the operation that killed MD have all refused to give statements? I am right in that? It was my recollection that they had all clammed up when the IPCC questioned them?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

How will they proceed given the police concerned in the operation that killed MD have all refused to give statements? I am right in that? It was my recollection that they had all clammed up when the IPCC questioned them?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/02/mark-duggan-shooting-inquiry-evidence

None of the 11 firearms officers at the scene of the Duggan shooting who were asked to attend interview have answered oral questions from the IPCC, instead supplying written answers. All initially refused to attend interview, and only the officer who shot him later attended. The officer, known as V53, declined to answer questions orally, instead submitting written answers two days later.
V53 has said his substantive account of the shooting was compiled three days later, with he and his colleagues spending more than eight hours sitting in a room together writing their statements. He says he has "no doubt" Duggan had a gun and was preparing to open fire.

 

[butchersapron]

I think this inquest will probably need another thread given it's due to go on for two months at least. The court order compelling the BBC to name the eyewitness who shot footage of the shooting and the immediate aftermath has been suspended whilst the coroner tries to force another person who knows who the eyewitness is to cough up the name. Little bit of context for where this going to go.

 

[butchersapron]

Mark Duggan: cop axed 'in secret over sex assaults'

A Scotland Yard detective tasked with supporting Mark Duggan’s family in the hours after he was shot dead by police has been sacked “in secret” over allegations he sexually assaulted two women, the Standard reveals today.

The Met was today facing accusations it is potentially putting “people at risk in their own home by not being open about this case”.

Despite senior officers finding Manz had “committed serious sexual assault on two females whilst off duty”, the Force continues to refuse to publicly name him.

 

[brogdale]

Mark Duggan: cop axed 'in secret over sex assaults'

C4 reported this last night, along with Met claims that he'd not been named because of no conviction, and he was to keep his police pension for the same reason.

 

[andysays]

Is it just me, or is the Mark Duggan connection in this a bit of an irrelevance?*

Surely the real story is "Cop axed in secret over sex assaults" and the Mark Duggan aspect doesn't really come into it, or certainly isn't the main part of the story. Or are so many cops axed over sex assaults that it's only newsworthy because of the Duggan connection?

The Standard seem to be using it as a reason to print another picture of Mark Duggan and remind us that it was his death that led to the riots (which is another way of them saying it was in some way his fault...).

*I mean for the Standard to report it this way, not for BA to put it on this thread

 

[butchersapron]

It shows that from august 2011 a copper who has been found to have lied and deceived was not fit to be a copper was the main family liason with the duggan family and the duggan family complained about the way they were treated by the police - with lies and deception. Do you really need a picture painted for you andy?

 

[cesare]

Dodgy copper is dodgy in additional ways shocker

 

[andysays]

It shows that from august 2011 a copper who has been found to have lied and deceived was not fit to be a copper was the main family liason with the duggan family and the duggan family complained about the way they were treated by the police - with lies and deception. Do you really need a picture painted for you andy?

I'm not full up to speed on exactly when the various aspects of this happened. Is it the case that he was known or suspected of having committed these assaults while he was acting as family liason?

And are you suggesting (I'm sure you're not) that the Duggan family wouldn't have been treated by the police with lies and deception if only they hadn't had the misfortune to have this particular liason officer assigned to them?

As I said, presenting the story in this seems to have given the Standard an excuse to rerun their "Tottenham riots were Mark Duggan's fault" story.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm not full up to speed on exactly when the various aspects of this happened. Is it the case that he was known or suspected of having committed these assaults while he was acting as family liason?

And are you suggesting (I'm sure you're not) that the Duggan family wouldn't have been treated by the police with lies and deception if only they hadn't had the misfortune to have this particular liason officer assigned to them?

As I said, presenting the story in this seems to have given the Standard an excuse to rerun their "Tottenham riots were Mark Duggan's fault" story.

No, i'm suggesting that having a copper found guilty of lying and deceiving supports the Duggan families contentions that they were lied to and deceived.

wtf is wrong with you?

 

[andysays]

No, i'm suggesting that it supports the Duggan families contentions that they were lied to and deceived.

wtf is wrong with you?

I for one was quite happy to believe the Duggan family's contention, and I don't see that this adds anything to it.

If anything it might allow the argument to be made that one dodgy individual was responsible, rather than them being decieved as a matter of Met police policy.

I'm not criticising you for posting the story, I'm questioning why the Standard have chosen to report it in the way they have, including the headline they've used, a big picture of Mark Duggan and the reminder that he was "responsible" for the Tottenham riots.

 

[butchersapron]

I for one was quite happy to believe the Duggan family's contention, and I don't see that this adds anything to it.

If anything it might allow the argument to be made that one dodgy individual was responsible, rather than them being decieved as a matter of Met police policy.

I'm not criticising you for posting the story, I'm questioning why the Standard have chosen to report it in the way they have, including the headline they've used, a big picture of Mark Duggan and the reminder that he was "responsible" for the Tottenham riots.

Of course supporting evidence for their claim add somewthing to their claim.

You might - for some reason - want to separate general police behavior from specific incidents. I don't know why though. How much use is a general abstract criticism of the law vs its reall effects today? Get out the clouds lad.