Ken Loach and dubious "anti-semitism" claims

[Zachor]

In these times you expect heros to have feet of clay to some extent but when you have great lefty heros such as Ken Loach spouting bollocks about antisemitsm being 'understandable' then you have to do two things 1. you call the guy a prick and 2. you feel sorry for him and about how far he has falllen.

http://www.theparliament.com/latestnews/news-article/newsarticle/eu-wide-rise-in-anti-semitism-described-as-understandable/


Why do so many of those who could do so much good just turn in to dictatorship worshipping wankstains. Such a great shame to see him end up like this.

 

[bluestreak]

I'll agree with you this time Zachor. It sickens me that people can't tell the difference between your ordinary person in the street and those that commit acts of terror and murder. The average European Jew is no more to blame for Israel's murderous regime than the average Muslim is to blame for al-Qaeda's suicide bombers. Ken Loach should fucking know that.

 

[Fedayn]

I understand why people get angry about immigration doesn't mean I defend it. I understand why people make remarks about Polish workers, does it mean I agree that they are right? There's a massive difference between understanding why something happens and agreeing with it. Or there used to be.... Unless......

 

[danny la rouge]

I'll agree with you this time Zachor. It sickens me that people can't tell the difference between your ordinary person in the street and those that commit acts of terror and murder. The average European Jew is no more to blame for Israel's murderous regime than the average Muslim is to blame for al-Qaeda's suicide bombers. Ken Loach should fucking know that.

What's he saying, though? That the anti Semitism is justified, or that it's cause is the plight of the Palestinians? If the former, he's an idiot, if the latter, then he's right - it is understandable; wrong and unjust, but understandable.

 

[danny la rouge]

I understand why people get angry about immigration doesn't mean I defend it. I understand why people make remarks about Polish workers, does it mean I agree that they are right? There's a massive difference between understanding why something happens and agreeing with it. Or there used to be.... Unless......

Precisely.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I understand why people get angry about immigration doesn't mean I defend it. I understand why people make remarks about Polish workers, does it mean I agree that they are right? There's a massive difference between understanding why something happens and agreeing with it. Or there used to be.... Unless......

I don't think that's quite the context, though. 'Not surprised' – fair enough once explained. But 'understandable' is a loaded term, and someone as used to speaking in public as Loach should know that.

 

[Diamond]

I understand why people get angry about immigration doesn't mean I defend it. I understand why people make remarks about Polish workers, does it mean I agree that they are right? There's a massive difference between understanding why something happens and agreeing with it. Or there used to be.... Unless......

No that argument doesn't work. The point is the difference between Israel and Judaism, Zionism and Judaism. The two are not the same thing.

If a left wing figure came out in the press and said he understood attacks on British Muslims because of the 7/7 bombings there would, rightly, be no beating about the bush or appreciation of fine dividing lines between understanding and support.

When you are this much of a public figure saying that you understand someone's thought process in exercising their prejudice, you are intimating that you sympathise with their conclusions. When this message comes from a figure who is viewed as a moral authority that is tantamount to support. So to pretend that you are merely 'understanding' or 'comprehending' their position is disingenuous and cowardly.

 

[Fedayn]

I don't think that's quite the context, though. 'Not surprised' – fair enough once explained. But 'understandable' is a loaded term, and someone as used to speaking in public as Loach should know that.

So what your saying is he could/should have phrased it better, perhaps yes. But does that mean he's some kind of drooling anti-semite as Zachor is clearly wanting us to say?

 

[quimcunx]

I understand why people get angry about immigration doesn't mean I defend it. I understand why people make remarks about Polish workers, does it mean I agree that they are right? There's a massive difference between understanding why something happens and agreeing with it. Or there used to be.... Unless......

Agreed.

It's nowhere near clear from those small quotes what he finds justifiable or not. Just that he understands how these things can go.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So what your saying is he could/should have phrased it better, perhaps yes. But does that mean he's some kind of drooling anti-semite as Zachor is clearly wanting us to say?

I don't think it makes him a drooling anti-Semite, no. But it is a misjudgement to have said that – and in the case of someone like Loach who should know the power of his words it is a bad misjudgement.

 

[Fedayn]

No that argument doesn't work. The point is the difference between Israel and Judaism, Zionism and Judaism. The two are not the same thing.

If a left wing figure came out in the press and said he understood attacks on British Muslims because of the 7/7 bombings there would, rightly, be no beating about the bush or appreciation of fine dividing lines between understanding and support.

When you are this much of a public figure saying that you understand someone's thought process in exercising their prejudice, you are intimating that you sympathise with their conclusions. When this message comes from a figure who is viewed as a moral authority that is tantamount to support. So to pretend that you are merely 'understanding' or 'comprehending' their position is disingenuous and cowardly.

Well, here you are then, given the niagara of shite spewed by the press in regards to Islam and Muslims in general I entirely understand why some people spout anti-muslim rhetoric. I understand why in the context of this niagara of lies why people will, or may, bvote BNP on the back of their picking up of this rhetoric. Does this mean I agree with them? I utterly reject it but in the absence of a reply I understand why a process happens. To understand doesn't mean to agree. Yes there's ways and means of saying something but Zachor is simply playing his card.

 

[Fedayn]

I don't think it makes him a drooling anti-Semite, no. But it is a misjudgement to have said that – and in the case of someone like Loach who should know the power of his words it is a bad misjudgement.

So he's guilty, at worst, in your eyes, of making a misjudgement. Let's be clear that's not what Zachor is saying, he's making it perfectly clear what he's arguing andf it's not that Loach made a grammatical or vacabulary misjudgement. But you haven't picked him up for his accusations?!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So he's guilty, at worst, in your eyes, of making a misjudgement. Let's be clear that's not what Zachor is saying, he's making it perfectly clear what he's arguing andf it's not that Loach made a grammatical or vacabulary misjudgement. But you haven't picked him up for his accusations?!

I can't be arse with picking Zachor up on his particular brand of drooling. I'd have thought it kind of goes without saying on here now.

 

[danny la rouge]

The point is the difference between Israel and Judaism, Zionism and Judaism. The two are not the same thing.

This is, of course, right.

However, does Israeli state policy fuel anti-Semitism? Of course it does. Should it? No. But that doesn't mean we can pretend it doesn't.

 

[editor]

I don't think it makes him a drooling anti-Semite, no. But it is a misjudgement to have said that – and in the case of someone like Loach who should know the power of his words it is a bad misjudgement.

Or the words of journalist writing the article, of course.

I can't see - from what little there is in that article - that the case for Loach being a rampant anti-Semite has been established in any way.

 

[Fedayn]

I can't be arse with picking Zachor up on his particular brand of drooling. I'd have thought it kind of goes without saying on here now.

Fair enough.

 

[articul8]

A Jewish friend and colleague at work made a very similar remark about Israel's actions feeding anti-Semitism. In fact, he went further (this was at the height of the Gaza situation) and saying that in some respects he was glad that people felt angry towards the Jews in Britain, because they needed to understand the depth of the outrage that Israel's actions were causing.

 

[where to]

heros

lol

 

[Fedayn]

A Jewish friend and colleague at work made a very similar remark about Israel's actions feeding anti-Semitism. In fact, he went further (this was at the height of the Gaza situation) and saying that in some respects he was glad that people felt angry towards the Jews in Britain, because they needed to understand the depth of the outrage that Israel's actions were causing.

He may aswell have written the protocols of the Elders of Zion' himself, he's a fanatical self-hating Jewish anti-semite with the blood of Israeli children on his hands

[/zachor]

 

[belboid]

aah, so Zachor has joined the 'understand less' brigade, hardly surprising.

 

[Zachor]

I don't think it makes him a drooling anti-Semite, no. But it is a misjudgement to have said that – and in the case of someone like Loach who should know the power of his words it is a bad misjudgement.

I dont' think that Loach has turned into a drooling anti-Semite but his misguided and ill judged choice of words has given comfort and support to those who are drooling anti-Semites.

He really should have known better. Someone like Seamus Milne you can quite easly file under ignorant wanker on the subject of the Middle East but Loach is regarded as someone with sensitivity and nous and this is what makes his comments all the worse.

 

[Zachor]

lol

Whoops spelling fail

 

[treelover]

yet again, we have equivocations and moral somersaults over behaviour that is frankly disgusting(anti-semitism) :there have been firebombings and physical attacks on Jews right across Europe, if this had been white thugs attacking muslims I'm sure there would have been no calls for 'understanding etc, just calls for hammers!.

 

[Fedayn]

Interestingly Zachor doesn't mention this bit at the end of the link...

An Israeli speaker, Nurit Peled, who won parliament's Sakharov Prize in 2001, said, "As far as I am concerned Israel violated international law in its recent actions in Gaza."

No doubt this person is a raving Jew-baiter a la Streicher too....

 

[Fedayn]

yet again, we have equivocations and moral somersaults over behaviour that is frankly disgusting(anti-semiticism) :, there have been firebombings and physical attacks on jews right across Europe, if this has been whites attacking muslims I'm sure there would have been no calls for 'understanding etc, just calls for hammers!.

So, when you understand why people vote BNP as a result of the failures of Labour et al does that mean you agree with their conclusion? Or does it mean exactly that, you understand that a process takes place whether or not you are in favour of that process, it is one that is happening. I entirely understand why anti-semitic feeling is on the rise as a response to the behaviour of the Israeli establishment and the IDF. I utterly oppose and condemn the rise in anti-semitism but I understand the process at work that 'causes' it.

 

[editor]

I dont' think that Loach has turned into a drooling anti-Semite but his misguided and ill judged choice of words has given comfort and support to those who are drooling anti-Semites.

Have they really?

 

[belboid]

yet again, we have equivocations and moral somersaults over behaviour that is frankly disgusting(anti-semitism) :there have been firebombings and physical attacks on Jews right across Europe, if this had been white thugs attacking muslims I'm sure there would have been no calls for 'understanding etc, just calls for hammers!.

try readng what was actually said, rather than one morons' rather disingenuous interpretation of it.

 

[where to]

Whoops spelling fail

no, i just thought seeing Loach as a hero was a bit cringe, and your first mistake.

 

[danny la rouge]

yet again, we have equivocations and moral somersaults over behaviour that is frankly disgusting(anti-semitism) :there have been firebombings and physical attacks on Jews right across Europe, if this had been white thugs attacking muslims I'm sure there would have been no calls for 'understanding etc, just calls for hammers!.

Does the report say Loach condones those racist attacks? No.

If you want to pretend you have no idea why those attacks are happening, though, carry on closing your eyes. They're just out of the blue.

 

[Blagsta]

In these times you expect heros to have feet of clay to some extent but when you have great lefty heros such as Ken Loach spouting bollocks about antisemitsm being 'understandable' then you have to do two things 1. you call the guy a prick and 2. you feel sorry for him and about how far he has falllen.

http://www.theparliament.com/latestnews/news-article/newsarticle/eu-wide-rise-in-anti-semitism-described-as-understandable/


Why do so many of those who could do so much good just turn in to dictatorship worshipping wankstains. Such a great shame to see him end up like this.

it would be interesting to see the entire context of it.