Maybe you have a point but there were problems with it (such as the problems that come with a very hierarchical structure - these problems are still present today), as there would be with a state capitalist venture. And I'd say I'm still right about whose benefit it was really for.
In what way was the nationalised NHS a capitalist venture? What were the returns it was giving on its investments? Who was receiving dividends from the profits?
The Attlee govt won 48.8% of the vote in the 1951 election. Ironically enough, that's the biggest share of the vote that Labour has ever got.
Its just ridiculous to claim its not capitalist.
Define capitalist for me, then. Because I'm at a loss as to what you mean here. 'state capitalist' sounds good so you run with it, but does it really mean anything at all when applied to the NHS? I suggest that it doesn't.
This ^ is a really stupid post. Where was the profit made by schools pre-academy and new school bollocks? The calculation made was a healthy workforce would be a more productive workforce. How you can say something established by capitalists in a capitalist society is not er capitalist beggars belief.
I'm referring to state capitalism. Capitalism run mainly by the state. With state bosses rather than private/corporate ones. Its still ultimately run in the interests of the ruling class.
You do know that 'capitalism' means rather more than 'there are bosses', yes?
You were talking specifically about the NHS in your post to which i responded. I never suggested the Atlee government was all a bed of roses and, in fact other have also posted compelling reasons as to why it was not. You have quoted tracts of a blog without attributing them, something which frankly i find dishonest and is in fact plagiarism so please don't be surprised if i don't take your posts at face value.
No, you're right; a fully socialised system of healthcare, (free at the point of delivery), was anathema to capital...until they worked out how to privatise from within. But, even in it's purest, socialised iteration, of course it was a benefit to capital...especially if the cost of reproducing more productive workers was increasingly born by the taxes on those same workers.
Sure, but that's not at all the same as being a capitalist venture, state or otherwise.
You seem to have dropped the important word state.
Do you know the difference between a) capitalism and b) state capitalism?
Maybe so, but as Pickman's model correctly pointed out above, certainly capitalistic.
You added this bit. The NHS was conceived and run in the interests of the ruling class? Presumably because it was better for the ruling class to have healthy workers? So the fire service was also a capitalist venture as it was in the interests of the ruling class for fires to be put out. Council housing was a capitalist venture as it was in the interests of the ruling class for workers to have safe housing. Air Traffic Control is a capitalist venture as it is in the interests of the ruling class for planes not to crash into one another.
Its not plagiarism, thats ridiculous, I cited my source. Its not a blog either, it was originally a pamphlet from the early 1990's.
You're obviously OK with the working class having to endure wage slavery, rising costs of living and restraint and having their living standards attacked while having to be more 'productive'- you're clearly OK with state capitalism - I'm not. Becauase thats what was going on and why these things happened back then.
Yep. that must be it.
Jesus Mary and Joseph you're veering all over the place
In a truly anti-communist/revolutionary sense, yes it was.
Is something that benefits capitalism inherently ‘capitalist’? That's quite a blurring of terminology. Is a healthy workforce capitalist? It obviously has its uses, but a healthy workforce also benefits the anti-capitalist fight - because we are actually healthy enough to fight. Once again, it seems there is an inability to understand contradiction and how it applies to capital.
There's a reason why life expectancy is in decline, we're getting unhealthier and education has been dumbed down in a narrowed curriculum.
You didn't even mention the increased productivity etc
Properly understood, all gains are actually losses.
And I keep forgetting to put you on ignore.
Certainly transitory, conditional upon the perceived threats/needs of capital.
Something that is capitalist certainly is. Anyway, on ignore you go, should've done it ages ago.
Better to stand and argue, pal.
