Is Brexit actually going to happen?

[NoXion]

I'm with you 100%, chum!

No you aren't. You're stirring shit.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well, I just wanted to know whether your dislike of him was based on your judgement of his character, or the basic ideas he promotes as well.

Always with the binaries

 

[krtek a houby]

No you aren't. You're stirring shit.

Not at all. Learned the error of my ways and sought very hard to make amends. Brexit is almost upon the UK and it's great. Seriously. The remainers haven't got a leg to stand on. Even better, Ireland may (serious border issues aside) may actually benefit from all this, should the big companies chose to invest in the Republic.

 

[redsquirrel]

He's got a new trick now - he sends you an aggressive insulting PM in the hope that you'll respond in kind then adds in a mod to the conversation to show how he's being abused.

Lovely, always the charmer.

 

[philosophical]

What on earth are you hoping to gain out of any of this?

It can't be to understand those who think differently, since you aren't remotely interested in any ideas beyond "those who voted for Brexit are racists and I hate them"
It can't be discussion about how to make Brexit work, since you declare that this isn't your problem because you didn't vote for it
It can't be discussion about how to make the EU work, since any issues related to the EU are rebuffed with "I don't care about that because remain lost"
It can't be a discussion about how to overturn Brexit, since anything on this regard is dismissed as "I have never said brexit should or could be overturned"
It can't be to build community, because you've done nothing but antagonise every single person regardless of their underlying position
I am genuinely bewildered as to what it is you hoping to achieve with the posts your are making.

I am now aware of your genuine bewilderment. Genuine.
I am here to discover if brexiters have thought up a solution to the Irish border situation.

 

[krtek a houby]

He's got a new trick now - he sends you an aggressive insulting PM in the hope that you'll respond in kind then adds in a mod to the conversation to show how he's being abused.

Do you want to post the pm, or shall I? Then we can discuss whether or not it was aggressive or insulting. Otherwise, it's pretty pointless making this thread all about me, as you usually do. Cheers.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I have never said brexit could or should be overturned or that it would be the 'democratic' thing to do, never once beyond a vague hope that MPs vote according to tbeir personal beliefs. My theme has been that brexit has happened so brexiters should no sort out the resulting problems, the land border on the island of Ireland being the most pressing.
My preference would have been to remain, but as I have said repeatedly that ship has sailed, and my challenge to those who voted brexit is to sort out the things they said they were voting for, like taking back control of the UK borders.

I'll get on the phone to ma pal Terri right now like

 

[philosophical]

I'll get on the phone to ma pal Terri right now like

I am pleased for you that you have a pal, and jealous naturally.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Well, I just wanted to know whether your dislike of him was based on your judgement of his character, or the basic ideas he promotes as well.

for my part both, he is a fraud, and the basic ideas he promotes - social democrats rising up within the EU and changing it for the better - are deluded. As well he knows. But that's been done to death on these boards and you have been here longer than me.

 

[kabbes]

I am now aware of your genuine bewilderment. Genuine.
I am here to discover if brexiters have thought up a solution to the Irish border situation.

Ok, you have your answer. Thanks for stopping by.

 

[philosophical]

Ok, you have your answer. Thanks for stopping by.

What do you mean by that? Are you the gatekeeper or the no-platforming security guard?

 

[bimble]

That special kind of ’no platforming’where you get to dominate the conversation for a week boring everyone senseless.

 

[philosophical]

That special kind of ’no platforming’where you get to dominate the conversation for a week boring everyone senseless.

Wehey. You speak for 'everyone' do you?
What will you bring out next? The 'people like you' trope?

 

[bimble]

Ok you’re right, some folk here seem to find you well worth reading and responding to, me personally I’m waiting patiently for you to go away (I voted remain by the way in case you care).

 

[teqniq]

philosophical No-one speaks for everyone here but yes imo too you're pretty fucking boring. Furthermore you didn't just come here to ask about the Irish border. You spent a fair bit of time sneering and trolling before you dragged that one out and you're still trolling now.

 

[DexterTCN]

I've no problem with philosophical .

As I've posted before, nothing's moving forward until the Ireland situation is sorted.

DUP refuse to have a border between them and Britain (and have the tories by the nuts), EU (all of it) won't accept one on the Irish border as per GFA.

Haven't even started on Gibraltar yet and only a year left.

 

[butchersapron]

Interesting that the only poster still bothering with philosophical is someone that he thinks is a fascist and racist.

 

[kabbes]

What do you mean by that? Are you the gatekeeper or the no-platforming security guard?

I mean this:

What on earth are you hoping to gain out of any of this?

It can't be to understand those who think differently, since you aren't remotely interested in any ideas beyond "those who voted for Brexit are racists and I hate them"
It can't be discussion about how to make Brexit work, since you declare that this isn't your problem because you didn't vote for it
It can't be discussion about how to make the EU work, since any issues related to the EU are rebuffed with "I don't care about that because remain lost"
It can't be a discussion about how to overturn Brexit, since anything on this regard is dismissed as "I have never said brexit should or could be overturned"
It can't be to build community, because you've done nothing but antagonise every single person regardless of their underlying position
I am genuinely bewildered as to what it is you hoping to achieve with the posts your are making.

Your only response to the above is that you wanted an answer to a specific question. Now you have your answers to that specific question — regardless of how good or satisfying you think those answers were — what else is it you want? Seriously, what do you expect from us?

 

[philosophical]

philosophical No-one speaks for everyone here but yes imo too you're pretty fucking boring. Furthermore you didn't just come here to ask about the Irish border. You spent a fair bit of time sneering and trolling before you dragged that one out and you're still trolling now.

Ok you’re right, some folk here seem to find you well worth reading and responding to, me personally I’m waiting patiently for you to go away (I voted remain by the way in case you care).

Fair enough and thank you for your patience, politely expressed.

 

[philosophical]

I mean this:



Your only response to the above is that you wanted an answer to a specific question. Now you have your answers to that specific question — regardless of how good or satisfying you think those answers were — what else is it you want? Seriously, what do you expect from us?

I should have expressed myself more fully, I was hoping for a workable realistic and practical answer to the Irish border question. So no there hasn't been an answer, and it is not particularly down to one individual here to supply one, but I am entitled to live in hope.

 

[kabbes]

I should have expressed myself more fully, I was hoping for a workable realistic and practical answer to the Irish border question. So no there hasn't been an answer, and it is not particularly down to one individual here to supply one, but I am entitled to live in hope.

And now what? You’ll keep on asking the same question endlessly until somebody here provides you with an answer that meets your personal criteria?

 

[philosophical]

philosophical No-one speaks for everyone here but yes imo too you're pretty fucking boring. Furthermore you didn't just come here to ask about the Irish border. You spent a fair bit of time sneering and trolling before you dragged that one out and you're still trolling now.

Sneering and trolling? OK, you're entitled to think that of course but on this thread I have not initiated any abuse to an individual, been on the receiving end, but at that point given it back or at the very least pointed it out. If trolling means starting abusing then not guilty.
If trolling means being persistent then of course I am guilty of that, if trolling is defined on the hoof by a person using it as a put down then that is up to them.
Boring is fair comment, but an opinion, this board is not exactly flush with Oscar Wildes though.
As for the Irish border, yes I came on here to mention it, so what?
The sneering? You must have missed the string of snide remarks in my direction, especially when I have disclosed personal information, but the snide remarks would be easy to miss when they're shared around.

 

[philosophical]

And now what? You’ll keep on asking the same question endlessly until somebody here provides you with an answer that meets your personal criteria?

Any criteria would be a start...sorry any practical workable and realistic criteria.

 

[Wilf]

My preference would have been to remain, but as I have said repeatedly that ship has sailed, and my challenge to those who voted brexit is to sort out the things they said they were voting for, like taking back control of the UK borders.

Well, you've said this several times. Would you be willing to advise brexit voters on this thread where they go to 'sort things'? Is there a big suggestion box somewhere? Or has David Davis got the kettle on for people to call in with their solutions (probably best to email him beforehand)?

As you know full well, neither Westminster democracy or EU democracy allow people to 'sort things'. That's not the intention of democracy.

 

[philosophical]

I mean this:



Your only response to the above is that you wanted an answer to a specific question. Now you have your answers to that specific question — regardless of how good or satisfying you think those answers were — what else is it you want? Seriously, what do you expect from us?

Well, you've said this several times. Would you be willing to advise brexit voters on this thread where they go to 'sort things'? Is there a big suggestion box somewhere? Or has David Davis got the kettle on for people to call in with their solutions (probably best to email him beforehand)?

As you know full well, neither Westminster democracy or EU democracy allow people to 'sort things'. That's not the intention of democracy.

The fresh Irish border problem is a consequence of one narrow kind of democracy expressed in the referendum.
Are you really advising me to ask something of brexit voters (which I have been doing anyway)?
If you are, then a metaphorical suggestion box would be a good start.
I wonder, do you have any solutions to suggest yourself? Oops, practical, workable and reasonable solutions within the limited time period David Davis is faced with?

 

[Wilf]

I am here to discover if brexiters have thought up a solution to the Irish border situation.

Oh Gawd, right, let's get this sorted. I'm going to book a church hall, maybe in Birmingham. Won't be many coming down from Scotland, but it should be pretty central for all the other guilty brexiteers to sneak along to. There'll be 3 options, powerpoint and everything. Not doing that shaky hands thing though, it's really shit. Can somebody do the teas and coffees?

 

[philosophical]

Oh Gawd, right, let's get this sorted. I'm going to book a church hall, maybe in Birmingham. Won't be many coming down from Scotland, but it should be pretty central for all the other guilty brexiteers to sneak along to. There'll be 3 options, powerpoint and everything. Not doing that shaky hands thing though, it's really shit. Can somebody do the teas and coffees?

Post the details and I will be there, and chip in towards the expenses too.

It would be interesting, because within the churn of this thread only kabbes has been prepared to offer any kind of an idea, even if it has been argued against as unworkable. It has been far easier for brexiters and others to have digs at me than to suggest anything themselves regarding the Irish border, maybe your Birmingham event will be better. What date did you have in mind?

 

[Wilf]

Post the details and I will be there, and chip in towards the expenses too.

It would be interesting, because within the churn of this thread only kabbes has been prepared to offer any kind of an idea, even if it has been argued against as unworkable. It has been far easier for brexiters and others to have digs at me than to suggest anything themselves regarding the Irish border, maybe your Birmingham event will be better. What date did you have in mind?

Well, Farage's birthday is April 3rd, so I'll see if it's free then. Only trouble will be if I book it on behalf of 'The Thick Much Hated Racists', the church might get a bit anxious.

Oh, by the way, presume you voted Labour, say in 2005 (or libdem?)? Presume you went into the voting booth with at least outline plans for postwar reconstruction in Iraq, improving the cost-benefit calculations done by NICE, school repairs budget...

 

[philosophical]

Well, Farage's birthday is April 3rd, so I'll see if it's free then. Only trouble will be if I book it on behalf of 'The Thick Much Hated Racists', the church might get a bit anxious.

Oh, by the way, presume you voted Labour, say in 2005 (or libdem?)? Presume you went into the voting booth with at least outline plans for postwar reconstruction in Iraq, improving the cost-benefit calculations done by NICE, school repairs budget...

How did you guess?
For me the war porn enjoyed by many as a result of the Labour led initiative in Iraq has been disgusting, but to an extent there has also been a bit of victim porn going on too.
Lots of people express outrage at those who have suffered either in war, or as migrants, or because of economic damage visited upon folk, or for many other reasons, but for the most part it seems vapid and insincere.
All the 'what about?' stuff is rather Michael Jackson, and it was a nice moment when Jarvis Cocker showed his arse to the faux concerned who want to parade that concern around for others to notice.
I have never voted for the Liberals by the way.
When it comes to school repairs, I would hope general society would question some of the assumptions about schooling and education in the first place, not see it as glorified child minding which it seems to have become, however whilst those buildings mind those children, my plan would be to double suitable taxes to pay for those repairs.
When you mention NICE, do you mean the national Institute for health and care excellence?

 

[kabbes]

A hard border in Ireland is both practicable and workable — you’re just ideologically opposed to it. But this is the problem, isn’t it? The various things people want are in tension with each other (the things all wanted by the same person, even), so something has to give.

You’re assuming that the border situation in Ireland is the most important thing of all and so anything that threatens it is de facto evil. But other people have other priorities, and that’s is entirely fair enough. Why should somebody in Lincolnshire prioritise the desire of people in Ireland to travel effortlessly between north and south over the problems faced in their own life — their own lived reality? People aren’t racist, ignorant or “being a tosser” just because they have different priorities to you which make them willing to have different compromises.